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Coronavirus

Oregon Supreme Court halts judges’ order nixing Gov. Brown’s virus restrictions

(Update: State Supreme Court puts hold on judge's ruling pending arguments)

State's emergency motion granted until full court can hear arguments

SALEM, Ore. (AP) — The Oregon Supreme Court late Monday halted a Baker County judge’s order earlier in the day that had tossed out statewide coronavirus restrictions imposed by Democratic Gov. Kate Brown.

State Supreme Court Presiding Justice Thomas Balmer issued a three-paragraph ruling that granted the state's emergency motion after reviewing briefs from both sides, The Oregonian/OregonLive reported.

The hold will remain in effect until the full high court considers the state's full petition to dismiss the Baker County Circuit Court Judge Matthew Shirtcliff's preliminary injunction.

Balmer gave the plaintiffs until Friday to file any responses and said the court would take the matter under advisement, with no set timetable for a decision.

Shirtcliff had ruled that Brown erred by not seeking the Legislature’s approval to extend the stay-at-home orders beyond a 28-day limit.

Shirtcliff declared the restrictions "null and void" in his ruling earlier Monday in a lawsuit brought by churches who had sued saying the social-distancing directives were unconstitutional.

The suit had also argued that emergency powers only last for a month and after that, Brown would have needed legislative approval. The judge agreed.

Brown had said she would immediately appeal the ruling to the state Supreme Court to try to keep the emergency orders in effect.

“This will ensure we can continue to safeguard the health of all Oregonians — including front line health care workers, those living in nursing homes, workers in agriculture and food processing plants, and Oregonians with underlying health conditions –– while the legal process moves forward,” Brown said.

After the Supreme Court issued the stay, Brown issued this statement:

“Following swift action by the Oregon Supreme Court, my emergency orders to protect the health and safety of Oregonians will remain in effect statewide while the court hears arguments in this lawsuit.

“From the beginning of this crisis, I have worked within my authority, using science and data as my guide, heeding the advice of medical experts. This strategy has saved lives and protected Oregonians from the worst of the COVID-19 pandemic.

“There are no shortcuts for us to return to life as it was before this pandemic. Moving too quickly could return Oregon to the early days of this crisis, when we braced ourselves for hospitals to be overfilled and ventilators in short supply.

“The science remains clear: by physically distancing, wearing face coverings, staying home as much as possible and only gradually reopening our communities we can save lives and keep Oregonians safe.

“We all look forward to visiting our loved ones in nursing homes, sending our children to school, and going to the grocery store without fear of spreading this disease. But the simple fact remains, COVID-19 is here in Oregon, and lives are at stake.”

Ray Hacke, the attorney who represented the plaintiffs in the case, said in a phone interview earlier Monday the ruling not only invalidates Brown’s ban on churches gathering for worship but also invalidates the entire stay-at-home order.

Common Sense intervened after the Sacramento-based Pacific Justice Institute filed the case earlier this month on behalf of Oregon businesses, expanding the scope, he said.

“The stay-at-home order is no longer in effect. It is invalidated. If people want to get their haircut, they can. They can leave their home for any reason, whether it’s deemed essential in the eye of the state or not,” he said.

Hacke added that the ruling was a vindication not just for freedom of religion, but for all Oregonians’ freedoms.

“Praise God. I’m excited, and I’m glad that the judge saw that there are limitations on the governor’s power, even in the midst of emergencies,” he said.

The 10 churches that filed suit include Bend Community Church and Prepare the Way nonprofit ministry in Bend.

The plaintiffs successfully argued that ORS 433.441 limits declared public health emergencies to 14 days, or up to 28 days maximum, and because COVID-19 is a public health crisis, that limitation applied, The Oregonian/OregonLive reported.

But the governor’s attorney argued that Brown declared a state of emergency under a different state law, ORS 401.165, which is not limited to any particular time period and continue indefinitely.

"The governor’s orders are not required for public safety when plaintiffs can continue to utilize social distancing and safety protocols at larger gatherings involving spiritual worship,'' Shirtcliff ruled.

He found that the churches can take necessary social distancing precautions, just as grocery stores and other essential businesses have done. He also ruled that the injunction was in the public’s interest, allowing people the right to freely worship and the ability to restore economic viability.

"This court understands that the current pandemic creates an unprecedented crisis in the state as well as in our country,'' Shirtcliff said, speaking from the bench in a videoconference hearing. He said he must protect public health concerns against the constitutional right of freedom of worship.

Attorney Marc Abrams, representing the governor, urged the judge to put a hold on his ruling until the state Supreme Court could review it.

The governor’s office will file Monday asking for “rapid review'' by the state Supreme Court, Abrams said. The governor will cite the importance of Brown’s emergency restrictions on social gathering due to the ”loss of life, spread of the disease,'' Abrams said. He also noted that most states in the United States have taken actions similar to that of Brown.

"There’s evidence that this is working and the hardship balance calls at least for the court to stay its order to allow for legal review and in the interest of maintaining the status quo,'' he argued.

But the judge denied the request.

The Rev. Chuck Currie of the United Church of Christ, who also is assistant professor of religious studies at Pacific University, blasted the judge’s ruling.

"People of faith want to worship. We want to gather. But houses of worship across the world have ended up as hotspots for COVID-19. This decision by Circuit Judge Matthew Shirtcliff is reckless,'' he wrote in a Twitter message after the ruling was reported.

Similar actions have occurred in other states.

The Wisconsin Supreme Court struck down Gov. Tony Evers’ coronavirus stay-at-home order last Wednesday, ruling that his administration overstepped its authority when it extended it for another month without consulting legislators.

And a federal judge in North Carolina on Saturday sided with conservative Christian leaders and blocked the enforcement of restrictions that Gov. Roy Cooper ordered affecting indoor religious services during the coronavirus pandemic.

The order from Judge James C. Dever III came days after two Baptist churches, a minister and a Christian revival group filed a federal lawsuit seeking to immediately block enforcement of rules covering religious services within the Democratic governor’s executive orders.

In Louisiana, a federal judge on Friday refused a minister’s request to temporarily halt Gov. John Bel Edwards’ stay-at-home order, which expired that same day.

In a similar case brought in California, a federal judge ruled this month that state and local stay-at-home orders were a valid exercise of emergency police powers and didn’t violate a church’s constitutional rights. The judge in that case noted that the U.S. Supreme Court more than 100 years ago upheld the government’s right to exercise police powers to promote public safety during a public health crisis.


Gov. Kate Brown's news release:

Governor Kate Brown Statement on Baker County Circuit Court Ruling

Decision to be appealed to Oregon Supreme Court immediately
 (Portland, OR) — Governor Kate Brown issued the following statement today on the Elkhorn Baptist Church v. Katherine Brown ruling:

“From the beginning of this pandemic, I have taken action to protect the health and safety of all Oregonians. We acted quickly and decisively at the beginning of the outbreak, using the best science and data available, to protect Oregon from COVID-19.

“Today’s ruling from the Baker County Circuit Court will be appealed to the Oregon Supreme Court within hours to keep my emergency orders in effect. This will ensure we can continue to safeguard the health of all Oregonians — including frontline health care workers, those living in nursing homes, workers in agriculture and food processing plants, and Oregonians with underlying health conditions –– while the legal process moves forward.

“The science behind these executive orders hasn’t changed one bit. Ongoing physical distancing, staying home as much as possible, and wearing face coverings will save lives across Oregon.

“Together Oregonians have turned the tide on the spread of COVID-19, allowing us to only now begin the process of gradually and safely reopening parts of our communities and our economies. Reopening the state too quickly, and without ongoing physical distancing, will jeopardize public health and cost lives.

“It is irresponsible to dismiss the health risks and science behind our measures to stop COVID-19. We would be faced with the prospect of another mass outbreak without the tools that have proven to be effective in protecting our friends, families, neighbors, and loved ones from this disease.”


Statement by Attorney General Rosenblum on Baker City Circuit Court Ruling

Salem, Oregon—Statement from Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum on today’s Baker City Circuit Court Ruling:

“Today, Baker City Circuit Court Judge Matthew Shirtcliff issued a ruling in the Elkhorn Baptist Church et al v Katherine Brown case stating that Governor Brown’s emergency ‘Stay at Home, Save Lives’ executive order cannot extend past 28 days. The case was argued by Oregon DOJ attorneys on Thursday, May 14, 2020. My office will immediately appeal (a writ of mandamus) the decision to the Oregon Supreme Court. When the Legislature adopted public health emergency statutes, it specifically said that it was not limiting the governor’s authority to deal with large-scale emergencies.

“With all respect, I believe the trial court’s grant of a preliminary injunction is legally incorrect.  We will argue that the judge erred in his construction of the relevant statutes and that he abused his discretion in issuing the preliminary injunction. We will also be asking for an immediate stay of his order.

“I urge Oregonians to continue to comply with the measures in place. They are there to protect all of us, and they are working. We are in close contact with the Governor and intend to support, as allowed by law, the critical work she has done, guided by public health experts, to ensure the safety and health of all Oregonians.”


Prepare the Way Ministries and Bend Community Church Represented by Pacific Justice Institute Win Court Case: Court Declares Oregon Governor Kate Brown’s Emergency Orders Unconstitutional and “Null & Void” Effective Immediately

Bend, OR – Prepare the Way Ministries and Bend Community Church, along with churches, businesses and individuals across Oregon, applaud the decision out of the Baker County Circuit Court today declaring that Governor Kate Brown violated the Oregon Constitution in her emergency declarations and authoritarian executive orders. The Judge ruled that churches, businesses and individuals have been irreparably harmed by Gov. Brown’s unconstitutional orders. It is time that the free exercise of religion be respected and pastors across the state of Oregon be allowed to safely meet.

The decision was given at 11:45 AM, Monday May 18, when Judge Matthew Shirtcliff of the Baker County Circuit Court definitively declared Gov. Brown’s emergency orders as unconstitutional. He said that all of her executive orders regarding the emergency declarations are “Null and Void” effective immediately.

The case was argued Thursday, May 14 and Ray Hacke of the Pacific Justice Institute (PJI) and Kevin Mannix did an excellent job of presenting the clear facts of the case. The case was filed on May 6th in Baker County, Oregon, and has two key complaints. The first argues that Gov. Kate Brown overstepped her authority according to the Oregon Constitution, which says that the Governor must get approval from the legislature to extend a state of emergency beyond 30 days. Article 10 A of the Oregon Constitution requires the Governor get a 3/5th approval of the entire Legislature to extend any declared emergency beyond 30 days. Gov. Brown extended the current state of emergency until July 6 without approval from the Oregon Legislature. By doing so, she did not let state representatives from all over Oregon serve their constituents by voting on such measures. These measures have had a vastly negative effect not only on churches, but also on businesses, private schools and many other organizations and individuals.

The second part of the complaint asserts that her actions violate churches’ rights under the Constitution to free exercise of religion. Many churches and ministries have been effectively shut down by this unconstitutional order, even though many counties east of the Cascades have not had any cases of COVID-19. Gov. Brown’s lawyers are attempting to claim that this complaint doesn’t apply, as she has allowed many counties to enter Phase 1 of the reopening process. However, Phase 1 still bans all gatherings larger than 25 with criminal prosecution; 97% of churches in Oregon are larger than that. She has continued her emergency declaration until at least July 6th, and if a vaccine or cure is not found, indefinitely.

Stephen Williams has been interviewed on this case and has said, “We live in a Constitutional republic… you can’t throw out the Constitution just because someone declares an emergency.” On the subject of the role of churches in our communities, Stephen said, “How can Lowes and Home Depot, not to mention liquor stores and pot shops, be deemed “essential” by Gov. Kate Brown during this COVID-19 pandemic, but churches are not? We applaud the decision of Governors DeSantis and Abbott of Florida and Texas in declaring Churches essential. Likewise, we affirm the dozen or so states that have made similar statements. Gov. Brown has usurped power she was never intended to have and through emergency declarations, become more of an authoritarian ruler instead of a Constitutionally-bound public servant.”

Stephen Williams was an attendee when the case was argued at the Baker County Circuit Court and listened to all the arguments. He said, “I was shocked by Gov. Brown’s lawyers, Beatty-Walters and Abrams, who asserted that the Governor has NO limits to her power during a state of emergency. They used phrases like, ‘limitless power,’ ‘no limits,’ ‘nothing limits,’ total authority,’ ‘complete power,’ over a dozen times. What makes our country great is the fact that we have a Constitutional Republic that acknowledges we are one nation under God, not a socialistic authoritarian regime where one leader has unlimited power.

During this time, when fear, isolation and hopelessness are so prevalent, churches have an essential message of hope, healing and restoration, and pastors should be given the respect and responsibility to decide how best to safely gather. Working with hundreds of churches across the Pacific Northwest, Stephen has noticed that almost all the pastors he works with just want to be treated as partners in the reopening efforts and allowed to decide how best to safely meet. Churches have a Biblical mandate to “not forsake meeting together” and to “shepherd the flock.”

Generally, pastors have been patiently working within these restrictive guidelines pursuing creative ways to try to stay connected, but it is time to consider churches as essential. Pastors are brainstorming how they can meet safely. Also, we renounce all hateful ways of responding and will always endeavor to speak the truth in love. Stephen and his family have been surprised by the level of hatred targeted at him, his family, and ministries. He says, “In a region and state which prides itself on tolerance and inclusion, it is shocking how hateful some people are in voicing near death threats at a pastor for simply speaking the truth in love and standing up for the principals which made this nation great.”



State GOP Hails Baker County Court Ruling Striking Down The #KateBrownLockdown
Party Chair Sees Decision as “First Step” of Citizens Taking State Back From Governor’s Dictates

Salem, OR –  The Oregon Republican Party released the following statement of hailing the Baker County Circuit Court decision today striking down the Governor’s Coronavirus executive orders:

“We welcome the decision by the Baker County Circuit Court to respect the fundamental rights of the people of Oregon and to restore the rule of law,” stated Oregon Republican Party Chairman Bill Currier.  “It serves as a powerful reminder that Governor Brown, whatever her intentions, is not a ruler who can ignore Oregon’s Constitution and laws.”Today, in a case heard before Baker County Circuit Court, Judge Matthew B. Shirtcliff declared all executive orders that Oregon Governor Kate Brown has issued related to the coronavirus pandemic as “null and void” for having exceeded the 28 days limit on her executive authority permitted under Oregon Revised Statute (ORS) 433.441 related to public health emergencies.  The law requires the Governor to convene the legislature within 30 days to obtain an extension of this authority beyond the statutory limit.  Lawyers representing the Governor failed to receive a requested stay of the Judge’s order and have said they will seek an immediate review of the decision by the Oregon Supreme Court.

“We know that today’s ruling is just the first step in the process of citizens taking back their state from the dictates of a Governor who has put herself above the law, but it’s a major first step.  This isn’t a partisan victory, but a victory for all Oregonians who believe that their elected officials must follow the law, respect their rights, and prioritize the lives and livelihoods of all our state’s citizens, even during, and perhaps especially during, a temporary health emergency.”

“We now expect the state’s elected legislative representatives to begin to resume their role of responding to the needs and concerns of the people as a co-equal branch of our state government.  If the curve has been flattened, then we need to move much more expeditiously to find ways to reopen Oregon’s economy safely, reasonably, and flexibly, particularly for areas of the state with very few cases and almost no fatalities.”

“We continue to emphasize that it is entirely possible to protect public health, especially for those at highest risk, while beginning to repair the lockdown’s economic damage and restore the jobs and livelihoods of Oregonians."

Crime And Courts / Health / News / Oregon-Northwest / Top Stories

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Comments

297 Comments

      1. Are you self-quarantining during the common flu season? If not, why not? I would think you would as so many people die from it each year. Yeah, you DO NOT give a crap about your fellow human beings, ya’ HYPOCRITE!

        1. You seem triggered comrade, look at all those caps locks! Are you ok or do you need a safe space until you figure out what everyone else already knows- going from zero to 100000 dead before independence day, is a real crisis and not just an am radio laugh line

          1. there are literally 1000s of churches in Oregon and all of 10 hillbilly trumpanzee Borg congregations sued!! LOL!!!! This apparently is a trigger for the diabetic hillbilly trumpanzee Borg!!!

        2. No need to react the same way to a flu for which there is a vaccine. Vaccines work effectively enough to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.However, good hygiene practices are generally best used all year long. So, I would dispute your assertion that someone who does not self-quarantine for the flu is a hypocrite.

          1. “Vaccines work effectively enough to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.”

            Maybe you didn’t hear- that after days of criticizing the President over issues the states should have been prepared for- the President went out and secured thousands of more ventilators and medical PPE from private industry- the President invoked our US military to build hospitals- both at sea and on land- only to have democrat Governors like Cuomo and Inslee of Washington realize they really didn’t need all that stuff !

            Now the US is donating it’s excess to other countries !

            The US was never in any threat of “being over-run”- that is a ZNN21 talking point that proved to be completely false… like a whole lot of what those two have been peddling- simply false-fake-and wrong !

              1. Great- try quoting some officials who know what they’re talking about. My observations are spot on- The US is donating 1,000 ventilators to South Africa- the US just donated more to India… why didn’t any of your quoted “officials” mention any of that ?

                https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/us-1000-ventilators-south-africa-virus-70632839

                https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/us-to-donate-ventilators-to-india-donald-trump/article31597871.ece

                Here’s Washington Dem. Gov Insleee closing the US military’s specially made hospital to handle all those projected Seattle based corona patients he screamed to President Trump about- only to close it within three days of completion- without treating a single patient ! Guess you didn’t get any quotes from them experts either ! whatta boob !

                https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/04/10/armys-Seattle-field-hospital-closes-after-3-days-without-treating-single-patient.html

                All your false accusations aside- I’d say my track record for accuracy remains head and shoulders above anything your experts are quoted as saying !

          1. “You can’t fix stupid”

            And you are clearly the stupid one in the house.

            It is a scientific fact- that even if you get your flu shots every winter as suggested by the CDC and the OHA- you can still get the flu !

            Feel free to research the topic- and get back to us- proving that you can indeed…

            “fix stupid” !

            1. Well im glad you can see there is still so much work to be done, its important for folks to understand the impossibility of researching and synthesizing a bat flu vaccine in under 6 months, as you say we’ve been working on influenza for generations and still arent done!

              1. You are truly brainwashed if you believe this virus actually came from a bat. This virus was manipulated to infect humans. In order for an animal virus to suddenly transfer from an animal to humans would take a rapid mutation that is unheard of in the scientific community. Grow a brain

            2. We were ‘discussing’ people dying from the flu. Try to keep the focus Swish instead of trying to steer everything toward your personal agenda. I did not say that getting a vaccine would not keep you from getting the flu but it’s been proven through multiple scientific studies that the vaccine will reduce the effects where you won’t end up in the ICU or morgue. It’s amazing how you all have been screaming about how many people die from the flu but turn your nose up at getting a flu shot. Want to talk more about stupid?

              1. You might want to brush up on more scientific studies – maybe the ones discussing how a flu vaccine is designed and made. It appears you do not understand that as often as not the flu vaccine may for “this year” may not even be for the strain that is here “this year”.

                1. Heres hoping they get it right for bat flu and dont just mail it in over a couple months like comrade president wants

              2. “We were ‘discussing’ people dying from the flu.”

                Great ! Carry on…

                How many people in the US have died from the flu this year ?
                How many in Oregon ??
                How many children ???

                Again- let’s “talk about people dying from the flu” !

                1. Let’s start with talking about how many of those that died from the flu were vaccinated for the strain they died from.

    1. The Oregon Supreme Court stepped in late Monday to put a hold on the decision by an eastern Oregon judge that declared “null and void” all of Gov. Kate Brown’s “Stay Home Save Lives’’ coronavirus emergency orders.

      The hold will remain in effect until the high court considers the state’s full petition to dismiss the Baker County Circuit judge’s preliminary injunction. ~Oregonlive

    1. And her director big fat lyin donnie!!! LMAO!!!! white house guidelines are waaay more restrictive, but thats OK becuase dear leader says so!!! Toooo funny watching these high risk, prediabetic hillbllies subject us all to there selfishness. But hey, this is what jesus would do according to them. Thats the beauty of superstitions like christianity, you make it be whatever puts you first, eho cares about other people!!!

      Golf and a whore anyone !!! trump / putin 2020!!!

      1. Unclefesterd, you have things slightly out of line. Kate dances to the tune of Bloomberg and Soros, not President Trump. Also, you might want to slow back down to one finger typing as you have several errors in your rant.

        1. How stupid are youu!!! She’s following white house guiselines!!! Which you apparently think are somehow, in yet another conspiracy, influenced by George Soros!!!! The earth is flat!!! Toooo funnny tin foil boy!!! Just like all the othe prediabetic, hillbilly trumpanzee Borg, you should’ve stayed in school!!!!

          Golf and a whore anyone!!! trump / kim 2020!!! True love!!!

          1. Wow ! And here I was- always wondering if it was possible to type on a keyboard while farting and sneezing at the same time !

            Epic melt down Fester- thanks for the laugh- especially that last part-

            “you should’ve stayed in school!!!!”

        1. The first time ive ever liked kate brown has been seeing the good job shes done with oregons infections actually, we have some of the best numbers in the nation folks!

          1. “She” hasn’t done anything, lol….except not follow the law

            “But the governor’s attorney argued that Brown declared a state of emergency under a different state law, ORS 401.165, which is not limited to any particular time period and continue indefinitely”

            Here’s the law….and she didn’t follow one single bit of it
            ORS 401.165¹
            Declaration of state of emergency
            • procedures
            Text
            News
            Annotations
            Related Statutes
            (1)The Governor may declare a state of emergency by proclamation at the request of a county governing body or after determining that an emergency has occurred or is imminent.

            (2)All requests by a county governing body that the Governor declare an emergency shall be sent to the Office of Emergency Management. Cities must submit requests through the governing body of the county in which the majority of the city’s property is located. Requests from counties shall be in writing and include the following:

            (a)A certification signed by the county governing body that all local resources have been expended; and

            (b)A preliminary assessment of property damage or loss, injuries and deaths.

            (3)(a) If, in the judgment of the Adjutant General, the Governor cannot be reached by available communications facilities in time to respond appropriately to an emergency, the Adjutant General shall notify the Secretary of State or, if the Secretary of State is not available, the State Treasurer that the Governor is not available.

            (b)After notice from the Adjutant General that the Governor is not available, the elected state official so notified may declare a state of emergency pursuant to the provisions of subsections (1) and (2) of this section.

            (c)If the Adjutant General is unavailable to carry out the duties described in this subsection, such duties shall be performed by the Director of the Office of Emergency Management.

            (4)Any state of emergency declared by the Secretary of State or State Treasurer pursuant to this section has the same force and effect as if issued by the Governor, except that it must be affirmed by the Governor as soon as the Governor is reached. However, if the Governor does not set aside the proclamation within 24 hours of being reached, the proclamation shall be considered affirmed by the Governor.

            (5)Any proclamation of a state of emergency must specify the geographical area covered by the proclamation. Such area shall be no larger than necessary to effectively respond to the emergency.

            (6)The governing body of each county shall establish a procedure for receiving, processing and transmitting to the Office of Emergency Management, in a timely manner, a request submitted by a city that the Governor declare an emergency. [Formerly 401.055]

            1. Im glad we did all that, keeping oregon deaths so low from bat flu is impressive looking at some of our neighbors, like idaho which for a while had the county with the most infections by population, in the whole usa

              Im glad we could avoid the mistakes they made, as im sure you are too

              1. Aninnymouse posted this three days ago- “We did beat bat flu, at least the first wave”

                Yet Governor Brown keeps the state in lock-down. So what is it that the ninnymouse knows that Kate Brown doesn’t ?

                Any takers ???

    2. …or just do sensible things based on actual information, that will protect your fellow humans from being infected, because it is the decent thing to do – you prattle on and on about your oppressors, but have yet to state clearly your regard for your fellows and your actions to protect them – would be interesting to hear

        1. Yes all the magas have been repeating that since they stopped repeating that bat flu is a hoax, or cured, or same as influenza, or a chinese attack, etc…

          We’re all curious to see your statistically siginficant and researched data on this topic comrade, because other wise its more science denying hot air

          1. What about Pelosi and fellow dem’s that thought it was more important to harass Trump over closing the borders to China? How about Pelosi walking through China Town saying “Come on down . . . there’s no problem here!? How about the Dem’s too busy with trying to impeach Trump, to give a crap about the American people?

            1. Lol ive been eating plenty of chinese food this spring too and yet to catch a case of bat flu OR racism
              😝
              Not to mention seeing the chinese almost done with bat flu cases far ahead of us, maybe time to open borders with them and learn something instead of fear them

              1. “Lol ive been eating plenty of chinese food this spring too and yet to catch a case of bat flu OR racism”

                Only anonymousktvz would use racism to deny racism !

        2. Yes all the magas have been repeating that since they stopped repeating that bat flu is a hoax, or cured, or same as influenza, or a chinese attack, etc

          We’re all curious to see your statistically siginficant and researched data on this topic comrade, because otherwise its just more science denying hot air

      1. “but have yet to state clearly your regard for your fellows and your actions to protect them – would be interesting to hear”

        Then try less talking and more listening ! I for one came out months ago insisting you all put on face masks- you and your hot-headed team of arrogants spent weeks shouting me down- calling me childish names- begging the mod to have me removed !

        You lefty libs are all such hypocrites- with your selective outrage and short term memory problems !

        You are not interested in “protecting your fellow humans”- you are here to yelp at the mailman from the safe confines of your front room window- loser !

  1. Hey TreHgr, I thought you said we better look out because EddyB knew exactly what he was talking about when he quoted a bunch of ORS’s and said Brown had every legal right to do this. You told us to “stay in our lane.” Opps! Guess we were in our lane my friend. I was done posting here, but had to come back for this one as you said you would for sure bookmark it so you could watch us eat crow. Whoops, I guess a bunch of hillbillies can be right sometimes.😂

        1. Correct comrade, bat flu transmits best in closed rooms with people close together, not in well ventilated spaces with ample vertical and horizontal separation

          1. Right, because it’s impossible to set up social distancing standards in a building that contains a cross. There is some highly intelligent thought here.

            1. Yes sounds more helpful than a lawsuit for the right to kill more people, if these churchs beliefs can only be transmitted a distance of six feet it might be on them and not everyone else

              but yes we can all agree pastors should spend their precious time tending to their flocks, not picking fights with virulent contagious diseases

    1. EddyB was clearly a plant- he probably sat in on the court proceedings last Wednesday- was then invited here to blow smoke up everyone’s bum.

      Props to the folks like yourself and DT who challenged this buffoon on both Oregon Law and the current data surrounding the Wuhan Corona virus- the fact that there was never “cause” to declare a statewide emergency will be the undoing of Kate Brown’s political career !

      So much winning !

    2. Yuh found an Eastern Oregon county judge who agreed with your interpretation. One. Now, I’m not a lawyer, but even I know that’s not the resounding victory your little obese hillbilly hamster in that big ole hollow skull seems to think it is. I’d wait and see how all this plays out before you start blowing things up and firing your guns in the air.

    3. You pwned me, there is no denying it. I admit I didn’t read through the other story, I was just enjoying watching Eddy speak in whole sentences. I had no idea this was coming down the pike, I thought it was just about churches in Baker. I seriously didn’t imagine a couple of out of state lawyers could round up some churches and completely blow up everything we’ve done as a state to keep each other safe. I’m still trying to process the fact that there are no more guidelines, but I will tell you that I’m deeply disappointed, and super concerned that everything we’ve sacrificed will all have been for nothing. Kudos to those cali lawyers for taking this to Baker, the town the furthest away from 99% of all Oregon residents, where nobody they know is sick it’s all just on TV so who gives a crap about them.
      .
      This is just from my own heart, not making a statement to start a fight or anything… but I am done with church. I was a long time member of a church until the “Christmas pizza delivery” stunt, which came after the “raffling a rifle to pay for bible camp” stunt, and so I’ve been a member of highland baptist since then because they speak from the bible without most of the football jokes and hug 3 people and all that junk, but this is really the last straw. Churches value their collection basket more than keeping everyone safe, so they blew it all up and now no one, anywhere, is safe. This is not the heart of Jesus, this is money>lives. The more I think about it, the more disappointed and sad I am.
      .
      So, yeah, congratulations.

      1. Hey pervy, didn’t see you down at Wild Ride? What happened? I* thought they were great people and you support them? Just not enough to actually patronize them though. Or you are a lying hypocrite & were right there partying away!

        1. Indeed, I am at home drinking a Hidden Trail NW Hazy Pale Ale as I write this, and it’s delish! What are you doing at Wild Ride? Shouldn’t you be busy running your little dive into the ground instead of stalking me?
          .
          Wild Ride Brewpub is located on the corner of 5th and Deschutes in downtown Redmond if any of you are interested in partaking in some excellent beer made by top shelf human beings. Their hours are 11am-10pm, and there’s outdoor seating with nice warm fires, your kids and doggos are welcome. You can find their yummy beers at the Terrebonne grocery, and probably some other grocery stores too, I really have no idea, lol….

    4. If you’re genuinely interested in the legal issues, I think you should read the Judge’s ruling in Baker County, even though it’s already been set aside by the Supreme Court. He did not base his decision on the Constitutional grounds you suggested in your comments to that other article. A federal district court judge recently issued a relatively short ruling addressing those constitutional arguments, concluding that the “it’s safer than shopping at Walmart” argument is irrelevant and that “neutral” prohibitions on gatherings in these circumstances do not violate the 1st Amendment. https://edca.typepad.com/files/23-order-denying-cross-culture-church-tro.pdf

      I feel like you took my questions in the comments to the other article as some kind of attack. They’re not meant to be. I think it’s great that people want to invoke the legal framework, rather than just their personal beliefs, but dong so requires more than just looking to the text of the 1st Amendment.

      1. You’ll find that in the fiction section btw… 5 of the top ten most infected counties by population were in wide-open georgia last week, quarantine works folks

      2. Yeah! Let’s be more like Sweden, people! Let’s look to the Socialist Democracy that has the highest infection rate of all Scandinavian countries! I love when the misinformation brigade can’t even look at all the data to know they’re promoting the Socialism that grandpappy told them was so evil.

  2. Church congregations, businesses and economies can all be rebuilt, but lives are lost forever. IMO, those who are not willing to share in the sacrifice to keep fellow Americans safe are no better than those who commit murder. There’s a reason the words are in this order: “…the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” where life is the first and foremost important.

    1. These religious folks disagree. They’re probably the same folks that are fine with a rapist in the White House who puts children in cages. It’s no wonder our country is circling the drain, with these self-righteous evangelicals taking us back decades.

      1. No wonder…. Yeah it really is no wonder when you have the likes of people like you making claims that have no proof no nothing…. Yet you keep making them. Need a tissue? The tears and snot bubbles from your cry fit are unbecoming

    2. How much did the taxpayers get to spend on Queen Kate’s custom face covering, it really wouldn’t matter to me, if she would leave them on until at least the end of her rule, just to remind us of her, and her court’s uncontrolled budget, and frivolous spending. Oh thats right they can fix it with another tax, or the Taxes they like to call “FEES”.

    3. OK, let’s start with putting an end to the murder of innocent unborn children. or are they not as important as grandma, and grandpa. Where does your right to life begin, or your right to die.
      Do you support the parents who just left the doctor, and found out they are having a baby girl, and they have decided to name her Hope, or do you think they are fools, for naming a lump of cells. It all depends on your meaning of sacrifice, doesn’t it.

        1. And yet science says a living cell can be a single cell. If science finds a living cell on another planet, they claim that is a sign of life. So which is it? If it has a detectable heart beat, is that not a life? For once it has a detectable heart beat, it is no longer just a clump of cells . . .

      1. Well, we can turn that right back around, can’t we. Grandma and Grandpa don’t have a right to live another day because this is all an inconvenience for you. Aren’t they going to die soon, anyway. Hypocrite!

        1. Martha ! Get a Grip Already !! You seem completely out of your element in this discussion !!!

          “we can turn that right back around, can’t we. Grandma and Grandpa don’t have a right to live another day because this is all an inconvenience”

          You know fully well that Democrat Governor Kate Brown closed schools- parks- universities- businesses and everything else well “before” she directly addressed nursing homes and long term health care facilities- leaving that “at risk” population exposed to the virus.

          If you want to vent your outrage at someone- do it in the direction of Governor Kate Brown.

          1. I think you might be mixed up, sorry owen- most of deschutes countys care homes and medical offices are on my client lists and most of those were closed or restricted voluntarily, long before the quarantine was official… just like mt bachelor who also beat the governor by weeks, it seems like most good businesses have been motivated by serious moral and legal contemplation, instead of just the bare minimum

      2. All worried and worked up about a fetus, but history shows, once it’s born, as far as Republicans are concerned, it’s on its own. If it is lucky enough to be born into a family unit that has enough resources to give it everything it needs to survive, great! You’ll try to recruit it into a loyal Republican cult member. If it is born without biological parent support or born into a poor family unit and starts to suck on the social support infrastructure teat, you begrudge and try to cut any help it needs..If it managed to achieve older age, you now have the Trump approved opportunity to alleviate society of this retired burden by potentially sacrificing it to Covid, just so you can exercise your freedom to have a beer with your buddies or get your hair cut. Doublethink in a more subtle form.

    4. Most of us would go right along with you are lot more willingly if you had the same approach to every other issue that makes people sick and/or kills a few. Until you do we can assume you have swallowed the media induced panic hook line and sinker.

      1. 20000 a month is more than a few comrade, why spit on soldiers in airports when you can mock the ultimate sacrifice of heroes from the comfort of your internet connection instead?

            1. So you admit to cherry picking irrelevant numbers- numbers that have nothing to do with the State of Oregon- our constitution- or our economy… then sorry- I really don’t care- and neither should you.

      2. 91,980 In 3 months and rising by approximately 1500 per day is not ‘a few.’ What, you really think the deaths are going to just stop when they reaches 100,000 in a couple of days? ‘Most of you’ won’t willingly accept this crisis because it inconveniences you.

        1. New York is responsible for 10% of the Global deaths… maybe the Democrat Governor (Cuomo) of New York should have prepared his state better- maybe that half-wit should not have placed Covid infected persons into nursing homes- maybe the guy should have spent less time whining about ventilators- and actually getting the ones he had out into the field.

          Votes have consequences- and according to the US data- the top US States experiencing the highest death rates to the corona bat virus- all are Democrat strongholds- and have been for decades !

            1. “Cases” don’t equate deaths- and “deaths” are what we are trying to prevent.

              You seem to spend a lot of time on that rickety ladder picking cherries… you are using the 4×1 rule arent you ?

          1. And most of those Democratic state strongholds have been supporting Republican states for decades. If you want all states to need handouts instead of handing back, then vote Republican by all means. The United States of Appalachia would be exactly what you desire, isn’t it, Comrade?

        1. Ummmm you did hear that most of the bat flu business bailout went to chain restaurants right? Minority .government at work again i guess, good example of why folks should avoid making 2nd place the winner for elections, yuck

          1. Too bad that according the The Constitution, the winner of the Presidential election is decided by the Electoral College and NOT by buying votes, voting dead, illegal voters, etc. It has been that way for over 200 years and it has never been by popularity of the sheeple. So, according to the Constitution, Killary was in 2nd place . . . loser!

            1. Didn’t read about boy wonder Jared, the other day say ‘The Plan’ was to stop the election in November, huh? Guess what? No election, no Constitution……Now who are the sheep?

            2. Hmmmm well we are definitely seeing the asinine way the minority governs the majority, when their bailout for non essential workers goes to chain steak houses instead of the “hopes and dreams of small business owners” as you so eloquently (and emotionally) phrase things

              1. And much of that was due to what the Dem’s pushed in the bill. Much of those parts of the bill were actually proposed and added by the Democrats in the House. If they had done a better job of being specific in the requirements, those chains, universities, and non-quantifying corporations wouldn’t have even been able to apply. Not to forget some of the other pork included in the bill from their wish list. How about looking closely at the next House bill addressing COVID . . . You know the one, it’s the one that the Senate has already declared DOA.

                1. As usual in the maga mind, everything bad is solely due to a nefarious network acting in concert to defeat them, while everything good is solely attributable to their unstoppable force of genius

        1. No, Democrats are trying to support the majority of Americans who have been impacted by a virus that was let out of control by an unprepared administration that “didn’t want to spook the stock market”. If action had been taken at first signs, we wouldn’t be here. If those held accountable actually did their job, we’d have more than just 3% of our population tested. We’d have half the dead Americans we do today. There won’t be an economy to come back to if Republican lawmakers had their way. If you don’t see that, you’re under their spell. There is little to gain from helping others, so why are Democrats trying so hard to help those that need it?

          1. Considering the short time and the fact that the US has the highest testing rates in the world . . . Your statement is full of crap!
            ____________________

            Considering Trump instituted the ban on Chinese entering the country against the WHO, Democrats, MSM wishes/orders . . . Your statement is full of crap!
            ____________________

            Considering it’s the Republican governors that never “stay at home” or opened up, while Democrat governors were early to shut down and now don’t want their states to fully reopen . . . Your statement is full of crap!
            _____________________

            Quit being a tool and learn to think for yourself and not listen to CNN and the rest of the MSM. Find a new un-biased or right leaning media source to get compare news with and get a more full knowledge of what is actually happening.

            1. Please remember that many airlines were already shutting down or had shut down their Chinese routes long before your corpulent, draft-dodging, whore-frequenting, American-killing stable genius saw fit to lift a finger. We were there idiot. Lie better.

              1. So please tell us all which airlines “voluntarily shut down” their China air-routes to save the planet from extinction.

                Note- I was there too- and it wasn’t the airlines !

                To quote a phrase- “Lie Better” !

                1. Shouldnt you be rooting for the truth comrade? And rooting for businesses to innovate faster than the .government
                  ?
                  Its curious you are willing to do neither, as long as you think it helps your quixotic arguments

                1. As long as your free app that gets a whole 2 stars
                  here says so….
                  https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.flightradar24.com

                  And how dare you trust a dirty socialist Swedish app anyway? Do your homework on your sources. Much like any of you geniuses acknowledge that this religious objection suit was brought by a Sacramento-based organization. You stable geniuses needed the Californians to come in and bring your legal challenge for you! So much winning!

            2. You’re wrong and you need to have some basic knowledge of math to realize that when they say the US is testing 37,118 per million that it’s less than countries such as Spain that are testing 64,977 per million. But you just go on repeating everything that Trump says instead of checking to see if what he says is correct.

              1. In the state of Oregon- more testing is only providing more negative results… aren’t you interested in what illness these tests are proving positive for ???

                Try to spend a little time on the OHA Dashboard for Covid and the OHA FluBites websites-

                This should help you to stop sounding like a complete moron !

                1. “Changing the topic also makes you look like a moron”

                  And your constant interruptions make you look like an s simplistic rude half-wit with no manners.

                  Are you that desperate for attention that you feel the need to speak for anyone else but yourself- If I was Martha I’d tell you to get back on the porch with the rest of the mangy flea infested mutts !

                2. Wow, BGHW’s hypocrisy of the day (so far)… if I had a nickel for every time you spoke for everyone in grand fashion, I could pay you handsomely to go do something else more valuable with your time – and spare mine!;-)

                3. “if I had a nickel for every time you spoke for everyone in grand fashion”

                  And if I had a penny for every-time you allowed off-topic personal attacks by your protected half-wits- I’d be opening new copper mines to replace the globes depleted stocks !

                  I have always been an advocate of the ‘block” button- if you don’t like my opinions- block-em. But since this new WordPress system doesn’t allow for blocking- yer just gonna have to learn to scroll on by… having said that- this does not address the constant interruptions and hijackings by the likes of “Aninnymouse”-Tio-TreHgr- and the rest of Barney’s Kids who self invite themselves into conversations- and then just engage in name calling- hate filled diatribes- and other rude behaviors.

                  The solution- admit the experiment with WP has failed- and bring back Disqus !

          2. Jackson County tested 3 times the amount of people Deschutes did…. Following the same guidelines. Z21 won’t even inquire how they pulled it off for fear of upsetting Cryin’ Joe at St. Cucks

          3. “Democrats are trying to support the majority of Americans who have been impacted by a virus”

            I wouldn’t argue against that- considering the US States with the highest fatality rates to the covid19- are all Governed by Democrats… So of course they got a dog in the fight !

            “If action had been taken at first signs, we wouldn’t be here”

            Again- I wouldn’t argue with that. Many of us clearly remember Nancy Pelosi inviting Californians to visit Chinatown in February- we remember New York mayor Bill de Blasio making numerous irresponsible comments as he shrugged at the virus and even advised people to “go out and mingle.”- But he wasn’t the only dumb bunny in NY-

            *City Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot on February 6 acknowledged that the virus could spread from person to person, but said that this type of transmission would be rare outside of households… the risk is low and our city preparedness is high,” Barbot said. “We know that this virus can be transmitted from one individual to another, but that it is typically people who live together. There is no risk at this point in time…about having it being transmitted in casual contact.”

            *Barbot encouraged residents to attend the Lunar New Year parade in Chinatown.

            City councilman Mark Levine, head of the City Council health committee, attended the Lunar New Year parade on February 9 and urged his constituents to join him.

            And of course we all remember Joe Biden raging on and on about President Trump’s decision to shut down airways in and out of China… he called the President a racist !

            Yes indeed… “If those held accountable actually did their job” !

            1. I love this meme too, just because overall the west coast bat flu rates are low to mid-pack, even though we have far more asians and contacts with asia, and even though asian bat flu outbreaks have been less severe than ours

              I guess you can only hear a racist dog whistle when youre racist too?

              1. Hmmm-

                *overall the west coast bat flu rates are low*
                *we have far more Asians and contacts with Asia*
                *Asian bat flu outbreaks have been less severe*

                Your post only confirms what I’ve been saying since day one- that the Wuhan Corona Bat Virus pandemic- never materialized in Oregon to justify any kind of lock-down- quarantine or complete destruction of the state economy !

                There’s your catch 22 for the day- the week- the year ! Thanks for playing !!!

                1. Conversely, the quick action by Oregon’s Democratic governor is what made the state’s results the envy of the rest of the country. Now there’s a catch 22 for you, Comrade.I’ll thank you for disappearing now.

                2. “the quick action by Oregon’s Democratic governor is what”… Destroyed the economy. So where’s your “scientific data and time lines to back up your wild eyed claim ?

                  My rebuttal can be found at the Oregon Health Authorities website- where you can find the historical time lines for both the Wuhan Corona Virus from China and the Seasonal Flu.

                  Time to put up or… well you know the rest !

      1. Oh, you mean the surveillance bill that passed the Democratic Party controlled House a couple months back?

        The bill where our Senator Wyden’s amendment – that would have protected our privacy – was voted against by 9 other Democrat Senators?

        The amendment that failed by a single vote when Bernie “man-of-the-people” Sanders was a no-show?

        Democrats have no moral high ground on this issue. Zero.

        1. Then you need to do a better job, no one wants this surveillance but it keeps happening sadly? However if the parties can work together to spy on us, maybe they can also work together to actually stop the bat flu instead of just ignoring it

    1. The quickest path to fascism will be when a sick and confused population panics and begins to behave selfishly

      Ive been proud to see oregon instead work together and make sacrifices for the sake of our whole communitys health, and ive been even more glad to see its working
      !
      I feel stronger in this free republic during the crisis, its been the best refresher of our essential democracy as we are re-reminded the value of neighborly respect and factual learning. Folks arent making fun of the three Rs or the science fair winner anymore, and its a spirit america can never have enough of obviously
      !
      The bat flu response is making us stronger and not weaker, pretending the quarantine oppresses our rights is simply a ridiculous kgb-influenced talking point meant to divide us and cause chaos, just like the current meme pushing a reopening of the non-essential economy willy-nilly without planning and causing 100000 additional deaths by ignoring medical advice

      Generations of american heroes did not give their lives for this nation, just so we could keep killing each other in the name of the movie plex or the shopping mall, we are better than this

      1. And yet there are states that didn’t shut down and have fewer per capita of positive cases and deaths . . . please explain why that is?
        All the hardest hit cities are Democrat controlled crap holes . . . please explain why that is? Why does Florida have much lower numbers of positives and deaths than NY, while both are comparative in population numbers . . . please explain why that is?
        Why are COVID death numbers within the typical common flu death ranges, when there isn’t a vaccine for COVID and there is a vaccine for the common flu . . . please explain why that is?

        1. If you think new york and florida have similar population models just because the end totals are similar, no wonder basic high schools stats is also beyond you along with middle school health
          🤓
          But in short, nope none of the stuff you heard on the lars larsen show this morning is accurate, for example right now the highest bat flu rate is in republican rural arizona, kgb spoiler alert!

            1. Like our oh-so-brilliant buddy sharder who successfully parlayed his GI benefits into a waitressing career for his kid (way to go there!), you also don’t get to speak until you research the difference between population and population density. Now I’m tired of tellin’ you Scooter. Hush when the the adults are speaking.

      2. You do realize that having a Governor with emergency “powers” is basically a dictatorship, which im pretty sure directly correlates with fascism. Individuals being selfish hava no bearing on the meaning of fascism. Unless those individuals are in a position of power. Like a governor.

        1. Whats funny is, if you remember back to march, businesses started closing as a precaution WEEKS before the quarantine, they only all started calling it communism later when the owners couldnt go fishing as much and all their bailout money went to shake shack instead

        2. You must be very upset every time Trump signs an executive order instead of doing the work to get a law passed or getting consensus from the other branches of government.

  3. Look at that. A judge who has some common sense. The liberals will cry. Also, something I don’t think was mentioned in the article (I might have missed it), this judge was appointed by Brown last September LOL

  4. Time for governors to step aside with their communist shutdowns. If you are uncomfortable going outside or to a place of business or place of worship then stay home. Do not quarantine healthy people who are not frightened into submission by hiding in their homes, wearing masks in their cars while windows are closed and walking 20 feet away from everyone. Governors should not be able to deem what is essential and what is not!

    1. We don’t know who is healthy and who just “feels” healthy but is an asymptomatic carrier. Government officials are essential when people refuse to listen to experts in health and science, instead regurgitating the ramblings of right-wing propaganda machines. If your “freedom” causes someone to become infected, are you willing to pay the bill?

      1. Same thing with the common flu . . . which there is a vaccine for, so what is the difference? How many that get the vaccine for the common flu and still get the common flu? Why and how is that? Your moniker is partially correct . . . You’re Irrelevant!

        1. Oh man putin really struck moron gold with this whole bat flu is the same as regular flu claim

          You sure ask a lot of questions for someone who pretends to know everything, i hope you find what you are looking for someday(hint it probably wont be off an email listserv with an .ru suffix)

      1. That’s about the dumbest thing I’ve heard. Talk about a true liberal you are. The only people really at risk are those with underlying conditions, those people know who they are and can take their own precautions. What was done by Brown and many other states was to use a trash compactor to crush a tiny plastic cup so to speak.

          1. If you want us to listen to your shade tree science theories i would suggest learning how to use a computer first so we can take you seriously

              1. Yeah im just on dial up with a Capn Crunch decoder whistle, but i do have a nigerian friend who needs help cashing some checks if youre interested?

    2. Folks arent frightened into submission, the are frightened by a death count in the six figures and the year isnt even half over

      im glad you are able to find the silver lining in a global pandemic and its true: “Smerti ne imeyut bol’shogo znacheniya dlya tsentral’nogo komiteta parti”

        1. Many people use the “D” word in these comments, claiming that being reasonable will cause a Huge Surge in people dying, even though 24 counties in Oregon with more than a million people have ZERO deaths. Nobody wants there to be no restrictions, only to apply reason to each area of the state, since they are quite different. Multnomah county and Malheur county can’t be lumped up in any broad category.

          1. I am the first to say it, oregon and its officials have done a great job everywhere and im proud of our low bat flu numbers- however looking at all the out of state rvs i saw on 97 today, the country needs a coordinated and funded strategy to reopen with medical science

            We will be looking at 100000 excess deaths unless we do this right, pretending that rural areas can ignore bat flu is the kind of junk science we cant afford right now, rural area have some of the highest infection rates in the nation, both currently and historically! They dont have their own tv stations or newspapers or hospitals so you might not have heard about it

      1. Are you sure you didn’t mean “Смерти не имеют большого значения для центрального комитета партии”?

              1. People here at KTVZ take issue with my claims all the time- some even listen !

                Wear a mask
                Put on gloves
                Wash your hands
                Get Gramps outta the nursing home
                Kate Brown’s Executive Orders are unconstitutional !

                My whatta horrific track record !

            1. I was busy during the few hours between the issuance of the judge’s ruling in Baker City and the time the Supreme Court stepped in to set it aside. If you want to claim to have principles, I suggest you read the original ruling and tell me it’s not exactly what people mean when they complain of an activist judiciary.

              1. “I was busy during the few hours between the issuance of the judge’s ruling in Baker City…”

                Yeh- I imagine you were busy… wiping that egg off yer face- finishing off that last slice of crow pie- on your knees praying to high heaven that the Supreme Court does step in and stop the insanity.

                Best get used to it ! Dem Gov Brown is now in the spotlight- at the national level too for not representing “all” the citizens- a complaint “we Oregonians” have leveled ever since she showed up.

                Brown has not spent anytime at all in council with the legislature- the various counties- instead she’s been running roughshod over the Oregon Constitution and our civil liberties- claiming there is a ‘catastrophe” waiting in the wings- and it never appeared !

                We’ve been lectured here before about the qualities of a good leader- so let’s be direct… Kate Brown has failed the state of Oregon due to her lack of leadership- her refusal to admit the science and recognize the unique qualities of the State of Oregon- as in- we are not New York !

                Kate Brown will be sued and removed from office- count on it !

                1. Unlike you, my motives aren’t political. I want people to understand the legal framework and reach informed views. Read those laws, read that ruling. I really don’t see the free-form demands based on a worldview alone as being productive, and it saddens me that it’s the state of what passes for argument. I accept what I consider to be mistaken, but proper, decisions from both Republicans and Democrats, although obviously it factors into how I vote.

                  Right now, only five states have lower COVID death rates than Oregon, but Oregon is right in the middle of a ranking of government restrictions imposed in response to the disease. You can condemn the governor all day long based on your beliefs. but I think many are going to judge those facts as reflecting very well on her.

                  https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-fewest-coronavirus-restrictions/73818/

                  https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

                2. “Right now, only five states have lower COVID death rates than Oregon, but Oregon is right in the middle of a ranking of government restrictions imposed in response to the disease.”

                  So what you perceive is that Oregon has implemented an average level of restrictions resulting in a low death rate.

                  I simply do not see the cause and effect that you do. And I base that conclusion by making comparisons (Data provided by the Oregon Health Authority website) between last years 2018-2019 ILI season and this years 2019-2020.

                  The observation is simple- that- Influenza Like Illnesses from 2019-2020 have run the same timelines as the 2018-2019 season… but that can’t be possible- because there were no executive orders in place in 2018. We should be seeing a dramatic impact due to wearing masks- self quarantine- closing all businesses and social distancing… but the time lines defy that !

                  As for the covid19 data- we see where Oregon fell off their peak- originally at the same time the flu season did… March 21st-23rd. But then something suspicious happened- as the “definition” for covid cases was changed to include “presumptive” we got another uptick- a mild but noticeable one. Some might argue that this was an attempt at CYA by changing the terminology- I’m not into conspiracy theories- but if it walks like a duck….

                  As for my personal motives- they are far from political- in fact- the whole Corona outbreak has been very good for my bank-account and an early solution to this problem isn’t to my financial benefit.

                  I simply despise incompetence, data deniers, and blatant attempts to lie to the people of Oregon- really is that simple.

                3. Easy to claim that you’re relying on data (without specifying exactly what you’re comparing, even among just two years), but I would encourage anyone who wants to believe you to go look at the annual reports directly, here: https://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/diseasesconditions/communicabledisease/diseasesurveillancedata/influenza/pages/surveil.aspx

                  Comparisons of flu hospitalizations in the Portland area, the number of outbreaks in the state, and the number of positive flu tests statewide all contradict your claims. I’m not claiming that they prove the contrary, but the number of positive flu tests statewide dropped more than 50% between the second week of March this year (when the governor first acted) and the third week, whereas last year the number of positives increased from the second week to the third week. Again, I’m not claiming that proves the opposite of what you claim, but it doesn’t support your claim.

            1. Sumimasen, but it’s gomen nasai. Two words, not one, but you don’t speak basic English so I’m not so surprised when you illustrate that rudimentary Japanese is far beyond you.

                1. Were you writing in kanji? Nope. It took being corrected and your translate program for that! But you keep on pretending to have an idea about anything that occurs outside your back yard. It amuses me.

              1. “Were you writing in kanji? Nope.”

                I believe the mod just asked that people not write in foreign languages- Romaji is a bastardized form of loan words (many English) historically meant for the “less educated” (those who can’t read kanji) throughout Japan.

                As for actually “speaking” the language- at no time would you ever split the words “Gomen and Nasai” !

                And that concludes today’s lesson my kōhai (後輩, “junior”) !!!

          1. I responded to anonymousktvz foreign comment language. Although I used Cyrillic script. The response was specifically for him and wasn’t negative in the least.
            _______________________

            What I said translates to: “Deaths do not matter much to party central committee”

  5. I sure hope all those church-goers don’t get sick considering that all their cultural practices, and how they live and behave at home will put them at risk…
    kinda like all those meat-packing plant workers at Tyson that supposedly got sick at home.

      1. People catch colds and the flu too- some even die ! Yet you don’t promote the complete destruction of our state economy over that… why not ???

        1. When dozens of people get deathly sick over the course of 3 hours in a small town, yes it does tend to make the news, but if you were from around here you would already know that 🤣

          1. According to the OHA Flubites data- large groups of people have been getting sick from the seasonal flu all year. They are termed “Outbreaks”- and if you look at figure #4 you will find this description-

            “There have been a total of 92 influenza outbreaks reported to the Oregon Health Authority in the 2019—2020 flu season; 56 (60.9%) occurred in a long-term care facility, 27 (29.3%) occurred in a school, and 9 (9.8%) occurred in another setting”

            https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/DISEASESCONDITIONS/COMMUNICABLEDISEASE/DISEASESURVEILLANCEDATA/INFLUENZA/Documents/data/Season2019-20.pdf

            It has been suggested that KTVZ utilize the OHA dashboard for covid19 and the Flubites charts on their front page instead of the global fear map- of course the Z has refused- I guess it’s because they prefer that the large number of liberal readers here remain ignorant of the facts- the data- the science.

            Go ahead PMW !

              1. Oregon schools have never closed state-wide over the seasonal flu… the information I have provided you is-

                “According to the OHA Flubites data”

                You seem to be confusing Oregon State’s yearly response to the normal seasonal flu with the outrageous irrational hysterics by Dem. Gove Kate Brown’s Wuhan Virus panic !

                Again- the State of Oregon has never closed down over the flu- an illness that has been proven to be more wide-spread and deadly than the Wuhan Chinese virus- why play dumb and argue otherwise ?

                1. And you ignore the fact that just about EVERY state took VERY similar steps in March, based on the evidence at hand. You claim our governor is unique, when what she did was the norm. We’ve run a list of all the states where legal action was taken, and you just continue to put it all at one governor’s feet. I have heard of no efforts to remove her from office, except yours.

                2. “And you ignore the fact that just about EVERY state took VERY similar steps in March”

                  Actually No ! So here are the States and dates of importance:


                  *California was the first US State to shutdown “All” gatherings on March 19th.
                  *Illinois and New Jersey March 21st
                  *New York March 22nd
                  *Oregon, Washington, Connecticut, and West Virginia March 23rd.

                  As we can see- there were only four states to mandate “stay at home” orders before Oregon… and of those first eight states- only one is lead by a Republican Governor- and that is West Virginia.

                  So the question of the day- is how many deaths had been recorded by these first few States- to justify the complete lock-down of their citizens and the absolute destruction of their economies ?

                  By March 19th- California had more than 20 deaths and a cruise ship docked in it’s harbor just full of covid19 !
                  *
                  Washington State had a full scale outbreak within their nursing homes- over 110 dead !
                  *
                  So what crisis was Oregon undergoing ??? On March 23rd Dem Governor Kate Brown purposefully and successfully destroyed the state economy over… 5 deaths !

                  You want “unique”… that response was unprecedented not only in this day and age of Wuhan Corona Virus… but also in the history of the State of Oregon !

    1. So let’s be clear then- that by according to today’s verdict- the Judge has determined that Democrat Governor Brown is ‘part of the problem”- and he (the Judge) has just become “part of the solution” !

      OK- I get it !

        1. 😷Q?#1). What Does Eastern Oregon have in common with Eastern Europe?
          A): both trigger Red State Red Necks!⛪
          Howdy ha ha.😱
          Q?#2). What does Western Europe and Western Oregon have in common?
          A): Strong Female Leaders,  trigger Blue ⚽’s.
          Q?#3). What does central European city of Bukovina have in common with Central Oregon town of Bend?
          A): where in the h📧🚽🌋 is that?
          LOL 👿😾🙈

          1. Bukovina isn’t a city in central Europe! It’s a region, similar to Deschutes county in Central Oregon. Can’t fool me on this one . . . My family history goes back to the Germans from Russia, i.e. Ukraine.

                1. Ive been blaming the russsians this whole time, youre the one trying to obfuscate that “for some reason”

  6. Hilarious. Now it’s on. Screw your orders Kate… You just got your ass handed to you and your whole team. Guess you’ll be breaking out the Supreme Court checking account now, right?

  7. #1 The numbers just aren’t there, and the morbidity rate will continue to decrease as the current “testing bias” is reduced.

    #2 Your(yes, even you) constitutional rights should mean something…think about it

    1. Realize as well, that Oregon’s numbers include presumptive cases. That’s just part of the numbers issue. CDC guidelines require deaths to be COVID related, even when the death isn’t specifically the result of the virus, but was found in the deceased after testing. (i.e. Deceased blows his brains out because he can’t work and feed his family . . . coroner tests the body and finds positive for the coronavirus antigen . . . so death is ruled COVID related. Deceased loses control of his vehicle and crashes into a bridge abutment . . . coroner tests the body and finds positive for the coronavirus antigen . . . so death is ruled COVID related.) So the question is what is the true numbers . . . especially knowing Colorado already addressed this question and quickly reduced their COVID death toll by 300 and are still re-looking at deaths during this pandemic.

      1. You don’t get to talk here son when you don’t know the difference between population and population density. Go do some readin’ ‘fore you come on back to the big folks table.

  8. That pastor is the reason why I do not go to church to begin with. That glazed over, smug, dumb look on his face is enough to know he’s a con man

    1. Sorry, the pastor is by no means dumb, nor is he a con man. He has a degree in economics from UC Berkeley, and his wife has a PhD in Environmental Engineering. You may disagree with the approach they have taken, but their request to be treated the same as WalMart is by no means an example of smugness. They are nice folks, and if you are ever down-and-out they would treat you with respect and kindness; ever after this unseemly and unnecessary attack of yours.

      1. Odd to try “imitating” walmart, considering none of their political and social activities, funding structure, legal and tax status, facility design, or toilet paper stock… bear any resemblance to walmarts

        1. All they are asking is to be treated the same as other large group gatherings in terms of the restrictions related to the pandemic, nothing more. They plan to practice social distancing, etc. BTW, many churches do meet in large box buildings formerly used for retail, thus the comparison to WalMart in regard to the pandemic is quit apropos.

          1. Anything essential a church possibly does can be done over the phone or internet, i know religious people dont like hearing that gawd isnt essential but its true… no one complained about drive thru services but that wasnt good enough for the SHE>i crowd so here we are, they are trying to make a point not keep us healthy (mentally or physically)

            1. It is not your prerogative to determine what is essential for other people. As has been pointed out many times, they plan to practice the necessary precautions required of any other large group. There are many close encounters in stores and other venues that are occurring every day, yet these are allowed to remain open. Further, many would say that liquor stores and pot shops are not essential, yet they are allowed to remain open with precautions. The same should hold true for churches. They should not be discriminated against if they take reasonable precautions just like everybody else.

              1. I share your concern about close calls at stores, which is why I now enjoy curb-side pickup whenever possible. Any time you are in a dispensary everyone seems to be wearing a mask and keeping as much distance as possible.
                .
                The same will never be said about any church, as we both know sly grins will be smirked as hands are shaken and shoulders gripped, leaning in close to whisper prayers for great abundance and wealth. The pastor will recite Psalm 91 to rest everyone’s minds that God will keep the faithful safe from danger and disease. A collection plate will pass from one person’s hands to another person’s hands to another’s until everyone has handled it, and the worship team will finish up with Jesus You Are My Healer. And after sitting next to each other in close proximity for the last hour and a half everyone will get up in unison to squeeze out the doors, there will be cookies and drinks in the foyer where we can all share our stories of hardship and boredom. We’ve now spent a solid 2 hours in a crowd of people with no sense of vulnerability, no masks, and an urge to own the libs by practicing our faith protected by the blood of Jesus. Right? This is exactly how it will go down, and this is exactly why church is cancelled. It’s not discrimination, you are literally being saved from yourselves.
                .
                I would love it if churches were treated more like Walmart, in that churches should be taxed, and you should have to follow social norms and federal regulations in your hiring practices. I’m not sure if the republican party is run out of churches or churches are run by the republican party, but gone are the days when you can argue that churches are anything other than half maga rally and half money making operation, wrapped in a facade of holiness. If Jesus showed up and ran for president on the platform that human empathy and compassion is more important than personal wealth, do you think your church members would call him libtard to his face or just behind his back? He didn’t have blue eyes, btw.

                1. The presumption about churches disobeying the mandates is simply NOT true. In fact, I know of one church right now planning to implement precisely the social distancing guidelines mandated by those in charge. Indeed, your statement: “This is exactly how it will go down, and this is exactly why church is cancelled” is simply a made up story in your own head about what someone will supposedly do. You are free to have you own opinions, but you are not free to have your own facts, nor are you free to make up mythical stories about what some folks are going to do, and then, based upon your own false myths, to wrongly discriminate against them. If the false stories and made-up myths running around in our own heads are the basis of adjudication, then no end to madness will result. Again, churches should not be discriminated against if they take the same precautions requisite of pot shops, liquor stores, Lowes, etc., which is precisely what they are planning to do, contrary to your assertions.

    2. “the reason why I do not go to church to begin with”

      Or could it be your drastic fear of “bursting into flames” upon entry ???

      Bwahahaaaa !!!

  9. Nothing like hand picking the picture to bolster the media view that the circuit judge is a redneck yokel. They do it with trump all the time. Journalistic license.

  10. I guess she wasn’t smart enough to read the Constitution before trying to run a state, she has no business to be in any sort of leadership position! She couldn’t even run a lemonade stand! Typical Liberal 😂 dive in head first blind folded. Unbelievable, and to think there is people stupid enough to vote these joker’s in🤪

  11. We know what we need to do now, and we WILL do it without the government declaring itself to be a police state. If all restrictions were lifted today, I trust that the vast majority of Oregonians would continue to self-regulate to mitigate the spread of this virus.

    Baker County has had only 1 confirmed case, so they feel that mandated MASS closures are wrong, and that reasonable measures can be taken, on a county-by-county basis, without MASS closures and HORRIFYING unemployment numbers. Emphasis on “reasonable”.

    Here is Brown’s (unreasonable) response:
    “We would be faced with the prospect of another mass outbreak without the tools that have proven to be effective in protecting our friends, families, neighbors, and loved ones from this disease.”

    There are three lies in this last sentence.

    First: “There would be….”; not we believe or it might be, but for certain “there would be” is unsubstantiated. It serves as a perfect phrase to introduce lie number two:

    “another mass outbreak…”there has not been a “mass outbreak” in Baker County, by any definition of “mass”, or in most of Oregon’s 36 counties. She, however, has caused MASS unemployment (hundreds of thousands), financial insecurity and emotional stress (look up that one if you’re concerned about the health of the public) for millions of Oregonians. THAT is a valid definition of the word mass – hundreds of thousands and millions.
    Third: “tools that have proven to be effective”; again, she has no evidence that the draconian measures have been effective. That is an assumption, and should be stated by her as a hopeful guess, because that is exactly what it is.

    As for this 73 year old native Oregonian, I have faith in my fellow humans to do the right thing. I see evidence of it every day. My fear isn’t of the virus, I’m wary of it and cautious, of course, but not terrified.
    What I’m afraid of is that this overreaction, if continued very long, will irrevocably damage my children’s and their children’s way of life that I dedicated my whole life to help create and maintain.
    It’s been such a beautiful way of life, and I would gladly give my own remaining few years to help ensure that my descendants will inherit it. I believe, and hope, that I speak for my peers.

    1. You dont speak for anyone, we can help the economy and stop bat flu at the same time, last time i checked doctors and emts and biotech firms all were part of the economy too, investing in the bat flu fight can give us a safer reopening and one with research behind it

      Just hoping people wear masks and never ever get off the interstate in baker, wont be enough of course- as the infection rate increases from an unplanned reopening, the economy will decline from consumer dieoff, this kind of reopening will not be as successful as a scientifically grounded one

      At 73 youre exactly the age and victim demographic to help in the trials and studies to invent a real bat flu cure, we can all hope you wont die for the sake of high school dances and downtown fests, but will instead LIVE for the sake of science and the cure of millions

      1. Kate don’t speak for all of us either. Nor do Kotek and her minions. And the mask thing…..if they work, why didn’t they just give them to criminals instead of letting them out?

      2. “we can help the economy and stop bat flu at the same time”

        Oh ? Opportunistic capitalism is going to drive the US and Global economy ?? Do you really believe that selling N95 masks, new ventilators, and hand soap is going to put almost 40 million American’s back to work ???

        Another absolutely absurd comment by Mousy- who has been on this thread ranting and shouting down much better and well thought arguments all day.

        Seems the good Judge from Baker has struck a nerve here- one that many of us agree with !

        Dem Gov Brown does not speak for the legislature- she has to go out and listen to their voices. She hasn’t done that- she is a power hungry dictator who’s spots have been clearly identified.

        She has failed the state with her idiotic Executive Orders over an imaginary crisis that never panned out… akin to flippin tarot cards in the home attic.

        Throw her out- then put her in jail- the damage she’s done will go well past the Trump Presidency !

            1. Oh but I thought you thought our evil governor purposely made us the worst in all things! The most onerous, restrictive lockdown that is killing us in our sleep, etc. etc. But hey, you shift-shape the facts to fit your … whatever.

              1. You would be hard pressed to find a post of mine where I said “Oregon” is the worst.

                I will stand by the statement that Dem. Gov. Kate Brown is the worst though- as the quality of her restrictions have had no scientific or provable positive impact on the State’s Corona virus situation- None !

                The data also suggests that her lack of concern and slow response towards the “at risk” populations have resulted in unnecessary deaths- we’ll have to watch carefully as this story- reported five days ago by KGW-

                “Healthcare at Foster Creek has the largest and deadliest COVID-19 outbreak in Oregon.”

                Will eventually morph into the Governor’s office !

                So again- lets be clear… Dem Gov. Kate Brown will go down in history as the worst Governor the State of Oregon has ever had- she will be sued- and she will be tossed from office !

                1. She WAS sued and the supreme court has overturned it. She won’t be tossed from office. That was already attempted, twice, and they couldn’t even gather enough signatures to trigger a recall election, let alone get the votes to have her replaced. Good luck. We have her until her term ends. Enjoy!

                2. “She WAS sued and the supreme court has overturned it”

                  Really ? So you mean it’s over ?? No appeals-or further discussion- it’s just over ???

                  Didn’t read the article did you- so here- lemme help !

                  State Supreme Court Presiding Justice Thomas Balmer issued a three-paragraph ruling that granted the state’s emergency motion after reviewing briefs from both sides, The Oregonian/OregonLive reported.

                  The hold will remain in effect until the full high court considers the state’s full petition to dismiss the Baker County Circuit Court Judge Matthew Shirtcliff’s preliminary injunction.

                  Balmer gave the plaintiffs until Friday to file any responses and said the court would take the matter under advisement, with no set timetable for a decision.”

                  So basically- none of what you said is true- just an off-the-cuff rant we always see from Liberal Liars.

  12. I am tired of all this. I have a roommate that decided once she passed the no eviction law has not paid rent and thinks they don’t have to and is working full time making $14.00 per hour and I have heard nothing about this not eviction law as to when it is going to stop or be dropped. This guy is living off me. I am paying my rent and all my utilities and all the bills and he is freeloading. Please can someone help with this. This is really making it hard on my family and me. I am 67 years old and am not able to afford this any more.

  13. “From the beginning of this crisis, I have worked within my authority, using science and data as my guide”

    That is a lie ! The science and data is clear- that by March 3rd the Life Care Nursing Center in Washington was already ground zero for the outbreak- immediately defining the “at risk” population.

    Dem. Governor Kate Brown never closed Long Term Nursing Care Facilities- instead she handed the responsibility off to the Department of Human Services who “issued strict guidelines restricting visitations, including nursing homes”.

    That is shocking ! That Dem Gov Kate Brown couldn’t be bothered to personally oversee an organized and complete closure of the facilities housing the most vulnerable citizens in our state.

    The fallout ? The vast majority of Oregon’s deaths have been elderly- a $1.8 million dollar lawsuit was filed four days ago against the Healthcare at Foster Creek facility in SE Portland- where 29 residents lost their lives to the virus.

    A clear lack of leadership from the Democrat in Salem is costing Oregon lives ! Kate Brown has blood on her hands and should resign immediately !

  14. A government of the judges, by the judges, and for the judges. Until it interferes of a government of the gov, by the gov, and for the gov. And even then, the judge is in charge.

    1. Honest question: why do you support a person who constantly lies, is obsessed with his image and polling numbers (not American people), is openly racist and sexist (accused dozens of times of sexual assault), undermines science and health officials, has fired FOUR Inspectors General in the last 3 months because they had been involved in investigations of corruption in his administration, praises dictators in communist countries, alienates our country from allies around the world, and is handing our place as the greatest country in the world to China, among other things? Do you really not see that Trump an all the Republicans that allow this administration to keep running its course is ruining our country?

      1. It’s same as you putting blinders on to all the stupid stuff democrats do. I don’t agree with Trump on everything or some of the things he does, but I agree even less with democrats and the things they do. It’s clear you can’t even look at the democrat failings.

      2. Obama was crooked as hell and backed by you liberals. Go ahead and vote for dementia Joe and if America votes him in you can kiss your behind gone down the rat hole who hasn’t a clue.

  15. “Hacke added that the ruling was a vindication not just for freedom of religion, but for all Oregonians’ freedoms.”

    What about my freedom of not getting sick and die? No one is telling anyone they can’t have freedom of religion. Worship away …. this isn’t about your religion this is about keeping your distance so you don’t kill people.

    1. All they are asking is to be treated the same as other large group gatherings (e.g. Lowes, Walmart) in terms of the restrictions related to the pandemic, nothing more. They plan to practice social distancing, etc. BTW, many churches meet in large box buildings formerly used for retail, thus the comparison to retail outlets in regard to the pandemic is quit apropos.

        1. Again, you are missing the point, and even the facts. They plan to practice social distancing and other measures just like any other large group gathering. There will be no unsafe sharing of wine, crackers, etc. Yes, I have been to Lowes, etc. and many close passes occur, waiting in checkout lines, etc. etc. Simply put, these churches should not be discriminated against if they practice the measures required in other large gathering.

    2. “What about my freedom of not getting sick and die?”

      In a state (Oregon) that has no cure for the seasonal flu (A or B) virus- a virus that absolutely does kill the young-the old-those with underlying health conditions… how have you managed so far ?

      1. NO vaccine is a 100 pct. cure, Dr. BNGHW (Barney NEVER gets his wish), but I get the flu shot every year, as do most folks, and knock on wood have been spared that malady by today’s science and public health efforts that you so routinely castigate.

        1. “I get the flu shot every year”

          Good for you- as I’m sure it helps you sleep better at night- even though- as you’ve stated-
          “NO vaccine is a 100 pct. cure” !

          I- on the other hand- have never had a flu shot- haven’t missed a day of work or been physically ill (I’m sure many of you will question the mental part) in decades. Some folks claim people like me are too stupid to catch a cold- that’s fine- but I believe the secret is as simple as age old advice- “an apple a day- life in moderation- wash yer damn hands” !

          1. All those things help. So does a flu shot. Sure it helps me and many others feel a bit better about taking care of myself, but I trust science, by and large, knowing full well there are no absolutes, but that the spinners among us don’t have a corner on knowledge, and often anything but. Too many people have tried to spin science politically. May you continue to be well and keep banging at the keyboard, “doc.” I’m sure if you get ill you’d just blame it on the governor/Democrats/media, not your decision to avoid the widely recommended vaccine.

  16. So wonderful seeing Queen Kate on the national news, my only gripe is they did not show her with her custom Oregon face covering on, would have looked much better, and help to promote our state.

  17. I guess progressives don’t like when a single judge dictates policy for an entire state. Except when it serves progressives. If progressives were consistent they would applaud this judge. Just like they do when a single judge in Hawaii will declare a new policy null and void for the entire nation.

  18. Again, you are missing the point, and even the facts. They plan to practice social distancing and other measures just like any other large group gathering. There will be no unsafe sharing of wine, crackers, etc. Yes, I have been to Lowes, etc. and many close passes occur, waiting in checkout lines, etc. etc. Simply put, these churches should not be discriminated against if they practice the measures required in other large gathering.

  19. Seems EddyB has been forced to agree with me- and he has yet to realize it. His post from above-

    “Comparisons of flu hospitalizations in the Portland area, the number of outbreaks in the state, and the number of positive flu tests statewide all contradict your claims.”

    Actually no they don’t ! I have clearly said that the levels of the flu this season are at “epidemic” levels. That there have been more than 90+ “outbreaks”- the vast majority in nursing homes. I have supported my claims by posting the website “Figures” I am speaking of- Legal Eagle EddyB just wants to talk smack without direct evidence of what he’s talking about.

    “I’m not claiming that they prove the contrary, but the number of positive flu tests statewide dropped more than 50% between the second week of March this year (when the governor first acted) and the third week”

    EddyB completely ignores the fact that direct comparisons between the 2018-2019 flu seasons and this years 2019-2020 data show the same results ! So again EddyB- how is that possible if Kate Brown did not initiate a complete lock-down of the state in 2018 ? No social distancing- no mandates- no closures… in 2018 is was business as usual… EddyB might be able to argue “coincidence”- but Eddy won’t go down that path. In the end EddyB walks away with this weak-kneed response…

    “Again, I’m not claiming that proves the opposite of what you claim, but it doesn’t support your claim.”

    So which is it EddyB… is the cup half full- or half empty ???

    These Z21 plants just kill me !

    1. You are unequivocally lying. You said “The observation is simple- that- Influenza Like Illnesses from 2019-2020 have run the same timelines as the 2018-2019 season… but that can’t be possible- because there were no executive orders in place in 2018.” That is simply not true, and I posted the links to the specific reports so that anyone can compare for themselves. Even had your claims been true, a comparison of a few weeks, from just two samples, wouldn’t “prove” anything, especially since the flu season essentially ended in early April last year anyway. But you insist on claiming something that is demonstrably untrue. The evidence is clear that in the third week of March this year (the week after the governor’s initial order), flu positives dropped by more than half from the prior week, whereas in the prior year flu positives increased from the second week of March to the third week. Again, I don’t claim this “proves” anything, but it certainly does not support your claim. That is how evidence and logic work.

      1. Absolute Hogwash- and in typical half-wit internet expert wanna be form- you are refusing the data- then you come back with some lame reason (that after peeking at it) it doesn’t mean anything !

        “a comparison of a few weeks, from just two samples, wouldn’t “prove” anything, especially since the flu season essentially ended in early April last year anyway.”

        This is not a comparison of a few weeks ! The OHA Flubite’s “Influenza Surveillance Data” Figure #1 is a time period from October 5th to September 19th ! How do you define that as a “couple of weeks” ???

        We get it Eddy- you were sent here under all kinds of pomp and circumstance- but were quickly outted as a know-nothing loud mouth who thought proper conjugation of a verb or two would impress the local yokels like Tio-TreHgr-or Anonymous- you know- Barney’s Kids !

        My observations are based on the science and the data presented on the OHA Flubites website- you on the other hand have clearly and inadvertently exposed your BS for what it is !

        You can leave now- go back to scrubbing floors so the High Schools can open up on time this Fall !

        1. He tries to treat you with respect and because he disagrees with you, you are rude and nasty. NO one “sent” this guy here, I have no clue who he is, as with other commenters. Heck, I have no idea who YOU are. But hey, at least you’re consistent. Once in a while I have to call you out on your personal attacks. Most folks know it very well.

          1. “He tries to treat you with respect and because he disagrees with you, you are rude and nasty.”

            By calling me a liar ??? Is that how you define a “respectful disagreement” ? Cmon B- that “you lie” card is way down in the pile of the deck I play !

            And since I have your attention… You have gone on a couple of times today about the “quality” of my posts. Yeh- I know- I’m not welcome here- just stirring the pot- no added value whatsoever… So I went out and did a little comparison shopping- and found that just in the last 72 hours- Anonymousktvz posted more than 61 comments to my 38. His were deemed either off-topic, personal attacks, or generic insults 87% of the time… My posts on the other hand included links- source quotes- and relevant points more than 93% of the time.

            So why is it I’ve never seen Anonymousktvz called out and rebuked for any of his posts ???

              1. So you are clearly promoting this discussion board for foul-mouthed mental dim-wits and slack-jawed hipster drunks- over anyone posting a link- quoting their sources- or maintaining relevant comments to the topic at hand… “That” explains a lot !

                1. Your nasty labels just say way more about you than the folks you attack. We have very few rules, as you know. Links are wonderful. Mine put the lie to yours, for example.

        2. Again, your claim is that “[t]he observation is simple- that- Influenza Like Illnesses from 2019-2020 have run the same timelines as the 2018-2019 season… but that can’t be possible- because there were no executive orders in place in 2018. We should be seeing a dramatic impact due to wearing masks- self quarantine- closing all businesses and social distancing… but the time lines defy that !”

          In 2018-2019, the flu season was essentially over by the first week of April. This year, the governor’s executive orders concerning COVID-19 started in the second week of March. So the only relevant part of the periods covered by the reports for the two years was a few weeks. And if you do compare those periods, the number of flu positives fell off sooner, faster, and more completely this year.

          1. EddyB- let me try and simplify this one more time… looking at the OHA Flubites chart Figure #1 (Percentage of ED visits for ILI)- Please tell me when the 2018-2019 season peaked- I see 3/21/2019. Now, look just above it- the orange line- when does that line peak ? I see 3/21/2020.

            The time lines are exactly the same. We don’t care about volume- we are looking at the time lines. We both know that Kate Brown had no executive mandates for self-quarantine- social isolation- complete lock-down of all businesses and gatherings… in the 2018-2019 flu season !

            Knowing this fact- there is no way anyone can argue that these 2020 Executive Orders had “any” impact or influence at all on the flu seasons. The best you could say is… maybe coincidence !

            Now when we look at OHA corona virus dashboard- we see that “Hospitalizations” (the real serious crap) peaked on March 23rd.

            I would go on to argue that in early March- nobody was staying home- was properly masked up- or was taking these self quarantines seriously- the OHA corona virus dashboard should have reflected this with a more drawn out and lengthy period of “peaks”… it didn’t. The evidence is clear- the Wuhan virus pandemic never panned out in Oregon- it clustered in a nursing home or two- but was otherwise no more problematic than the seasonal flu… and the state of Oregon has never destroyed it’s economy over the flu !

            https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/DISEASESCONDITIONS/COMMUNICABLEDISEASE/DISEASESURVEILLANCEDATA/INFLUENZA/Documents/data/FluBites.pdf

            1. Emergency rooms across the country reported that they were seeing fewer visits (in absolute numbers) for, e.g., accidents and heart attacks. You can’t learn anything from a comparison of the *percentage* of ER visits for the flu in the past two years if there is strong reason to think that other types of visits were being suppressed this year.

              https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/14/doctors-worry-the-coronavirus-is-keeping-patients-away-from-us-hospitals-as-er-visits-drop-heart-attacks-dont-stop.html

              Although I haven’t seen it addressed, it seems entirely possible that people who wouldn’t normally go to the ER with the flu would have been more likely to do so this year, out of worry that they had COVID-19.

              If you want to rely on comparing “numbers” to support a claim, you have to compare apples to apples. What we do know is that the number of flu positives dropped by half from one week to the next after the governor’s first order.

              1. Yer spinnin’ faster than the Mad Hatters Tea Cup rides at Disneyworld !

                I’m not interested in ER’s “across the country” ! I focus on one thing- and one thing only- Oregon’s handling of this fake pandemic that petered out way back in the middle of March.

                My apple to apple comparison is clear and on target… that both the seasonal flu and the Wuhan Corona virus both peaked in the middle of March- within three days of each other… there is no way Dem Gov. Kate Brown can take credit for that- and there remains no reasonable or logical excuse to continue to extend her shut-down orders.

                You are probably right about one thing- that all the hysterics and misinformation has the general public flocking to hospitals throughout Oregon- and medical professionals are playing along- to the tune of just about 100,000 negative tests- a complete waste of time- resources- and energy.

              2. Sorry there “Fast Eddy”- But I’m sure I addressed all your topics- and added that last bit just to see if you’d bite…and sure enough ya swallowed it too !

                1. No, I’ll let you choose to admit that you didn’t understand the information represented by the “numbers” you wanted to compare, or that you were being intentionally misleading, but those are your only choices.

                  Same choice for the logical fallacy, ignorance or willfully unfounded argument.

  20. As for this:

    “My apple to apple comparison is clear and on target… that both the seasonal flu and the Wuhan Corona virus both peaked in the middle of March- within three days of each other… there is no way Dem Gov. Kate Brown can take credit for that….”

    As I’ve already said multiple times, I’m not at all suggesting this year’s earlier, faster and more complete decline in flu positives proves the effectiveness of the executive orders in stopping flu and COVID-19 transmission. I was merely rebutting your claim that a comparison to last year proved that those orders had no effect. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, as they say.

    So we’re left with now only four states having lower COVID-19 death rates than Oregon (lower than all of the adjacent states), with restrictions in the middle of the pack among the states. No claim here as to causation, but your presumption that those results should hurt the governor seems like a stretch. I wasn’t much a fan of her until you brought these facts to my attention….

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

    1. “I was merely rebutting your claim that a comparison to last year proved that those orders had no effect.”

      Like I said- you may argue “coincidence”- but the vast number of posters here stating that Kate Brown’s actions saved lives- is clearly not proven.

      In the end- when the bills come due- and Oregonians are faced with personal bankruptcy- financial despair- jobs never coming back… do you really think Dem Gov Kate Brown will somehow be praised as some kind of conquering hero ???

      Don’t bet on it !

        1. Hot Off The Presses of Fortune and the NY Times-

          (17 hours ago – May 21, 2020 5:59 AM PDT)

          “U.S. real unemployment rate passes 22.5% with 2.4 million …fortune.com”

          AND

          The NY Times

          https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/21/business/coronavirus-stock-market-today.html

          12 hours ago – Unemployment Claims Continue to Rise in U.S… the official jobless rate for May to approach 20 percent, up from the 14.7 percent”

          So why do you keep enabling and protecting Oregon’s failed Governor ? It’s in your coffee maybe ?

          1. Huh? The newer number even makes my point STRONGER, that the national jobless rate is WAY ahead of Oregon’s. You are hopeless. Too bad you don’t stick to valid criticism, instead of over-the-top hyperbole.

            1. So if you think that using outdated data is a way to support any contemporary situation- that combining the old with the new is somehow “valid” – who am I to argue.

              I think yer in for a rude awakening- once Oregon’s defective unemployment website catches up to the real figures- Can’t wait to hear our good friend Mr. Rundgren sugar coat Kate’s catastrophic numbers.

              “Oh well Barney- I mean- what else could she have done ? I mean the Wuhan virus was right there on top of us- getting into our lungs- cutting off our air supplies- we had to… we had to do it- no choice- and what the hell- California and Washington were already doing it- so why shouldn’t we ? Seemed only right at the time to … destroy the best economy the state has had in decades- I mean Gee Barney- how were we to know this virus thing would just peeter out and damn near vanish by April!”

              Oh yeh- I can hear it now !

    1. Did you really post that on the same day that “Interfor” is laying off 130 workers from it’s Oregon mills ?

      I might also add that it is well known that the Oregon Unemployment Claims website crashed weeks ago- forcing many to just give up- or get in line to file at a later date.

      But-Nah… I’m sure you knew all that !

  21. I get it, you hate that all of this evidence fails to support your world view, and that I pointed out the logical error and misrepresentation in your attempt to use other information to support one of your claims, so you throw out distractions and try to change the subject, you mix in some insults. I’m sure that’s a good tactic in your day-to-day life.

    Take a fair look at the facts, and ask for help understanding them it you don’t have the background to do so. What we see is Oregon as among the states that has fared the best during the pandemic.

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