Skip to Content

St. Charles Bend nurses facing dismissal over COVID-19 vaccine refusal speak out

(Update: Adding video, nurses' comments)

'Natural immunity' effectiveness vs. vaccine still being debated

BEND, Ore. (KTVZ) -- Two nurses and a certified nursing assistant at St. Charles Bend who requested religious exemptions for mandatory COVID-19 vaccinations spoke out Thursday, saying they'll be placed on unpaid leave, then fired for refusing to get the shot by the Oct. 18 deadline.

Saren Love has been a medical floor nurse for nearly five years. Kari Derenzio is a nurse on the Progressive Care Unit and has worked for St. Charles for 2 1/2 years. Natalie Strong has been a CNA for five years.

“I would go on an unpaid leave of absence starting on the 18th of October, to be reviewed every 30 days," Love said. "I will lose my benefits on Oct. 31. I no longer have a position. When the mandate expires, which is on January 2022, I will be terminated.”

All three women said they’ve already had Covid-19 and have since built a natural immunity, though the effectiveness of natural immunity vs. the vaccine is still a matter of scientific debate.

But the three St. Charles caregivers say weekly testing and wearing personal protective equipment should be enough. 

“We got it and we recovered, and we’re still here, doing the same job,” Strong said.

Love believes there isn’t enough focus on underlying health conditions that put people at higher risk of contracting COVID such as obesity, congestive heart failure, diabetes and other medical health concerns.

“We’re saying the one-size-fits-all, assembly-line ideology of vaccination is not necessarily the best thing for our patients. These conversations do need to exist," Love said.

Derienzo is a third-generation nurse. Both her mom and grandmother have worked for St. Charles Health System for more than 20 years.

They chose to get vaccinated, but Derienzo stands firm that it conflicts with her religious beliefs and that the government is overstepping its powers.

“I don’t think your employer should hold your job over your head because of your vaccination status," Derenzio said.

St. Charles hasn't said how many nurses applied for an exemption, but does say about 91% of its workers overall are vaccinated.

Lisa Goodman, the public Information officer for St. Charles Health System, provided this statement to NewsChannel 21:

"The state of Oregon has mandated that health care workers must be fully vaccinated for COVID-19 by Oct. 18 to protect patients and the health care workforce as we continue battling our worst COVID-19 surge of positive cases yet. We are proud of the more than 91% of caregivers and providers who have already been fully vaccinated and have taken this important step to protect their health, their families, our patients and our community. We believe vaccination is the best way out of this pandemic."

Author Profile Photo

Bola Gbadebo

Bola Gbadebo is a multimedia journalist for NewsChannel 21. Learn more about Bola here.

Comments

319 Comments

    1. Yea! What a selfish person (sarc). Hey maybe you can let us all know why you agree with her firing? How does her not being vaccinated pose a risk to anyone else in the hospital?

      1. 78 COVID-19 patients, 15 of whom are in the ICU, with 10 on ventilators.
        In the ICU, two of the 15 patients are fully vaccinated.
        Eight patients in the ICU are under the age of 60 and are not fully vaccinated.
        61 of the 78 inpatients are not fully vaccinated

        1. That has nothing to do with requiring the nurses to be vaccinated. You can keep posting this hoping it justifies this mandate. Firing the nurses in the name of safety is false. You know, I know, we all know vaccinated still spread covid. Vaccination status is irrelevant in terms of public safety.

              1. Rf – first, what I said is not an opinion, it’s from the CDC website.
                Vaccinated – Spread Covid………
                Unvaccinated – Spread Covid……..
                In regards to the big lie – are you referring to three years of the left telling us Trump worked with a Russia to steal the election from Hillary?
                ——OR——- are referring to the forensic audit out of Arizona that has produced more than enough fraud to decertify?
                I offer two examples: 1. 78,000 mail in ballots that were never sent out, but were somehow “returned.” 2. Election files were deleted a few days prior to handing information over to the auditors. As a reminder election material is required by federal law to be kept for 22 months after the election. Wonder what they were deleting? Reminds of when Hillary deleted 33,000 emails after the FBI told her to provide these emails…no big, right. Nothing to hide.
                That’s just two examples out of Arizona there is so much more. There are also other states now doing a forensic audit because of the findings out of Arizona.

                1. @Trumpwon: That’s interesting…would you care to provide links to news stories where those two allegations have been proven? So far all I’m seeing in the news is that the audit actually confirmed that Joe Biden won that state soundly–and by a few hundred more votes than were originally counted. Below is a link to an interesting article in The Hill titled “Five Takeaways From Arizona’s Audit Results”.

                  https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/573888-five-takeaways-from-the-arizonas-audit-results

            1. Oh I see. We will fire unvaccinated nurses, even though they transmit the virus just the same as vaccinated nurses, because the hospital has mostly unvaccinated patients.
              So please explain how a vaccinated nurse who can still spread covid is any different than an unvaccinated who can still spread covid.
              Oh my handle is correct.

          1. Have no fear!!! Your dear leader, big fat failed and fired donnie the orange snowflake will soon be reinstated!!! And will handle this massive conspiracy!!! He’s an expert at conspiracies!!!! Should happen any day now!!! ROTFLMAO!!!!

          2. Hey TrumpWon, Trump lost bigly! Anyway, she is placing religion over science. I would not want any of my loved ones in the hospital to be treated by a non vaccinated nurse. Especially one that believes fairy tales over truth. Buy bye fake nurse!

        2. Where is this at? Bend? Bhahaha… fraudulent numbers. Ask some of the nurses working to explain the fraud being perpetrated. Like for instance, why it is that when a patient is admitted that has had their 2 jabs has “OVERDUE” for vaccine status on their chart? I can tell you why. It’s because if a person is admitted and they have been jabbed, but are not up to date, or they are within the first 2 weeks of receiving their jab, they are classified under “unvaccinated”

          How about we all learn the FACTS and the COMPLETE STORY.

          1. First part confuses, but yes, since the very first vaccinations, “fully vaccinated” has been defined, across the country at least, as 2 weeks after the 2nd shot (for Pfizer/Moderna), to build up antibodies.

          2. Bft, I work at the hospital in direct patient care, the case count numbers are legit. If a patient has had their 2 doses Moderna or Pfizer, the “overdue” status refers to the booster shot- patients are eligible 6 months from shot number 2. If somebody has only had one dose ( Pfizer or Moderna) and did not get shot 2 yet they may be “overdue” for that. And if a patient only has one dose of a 2 course vaccine then they are considered not fully vaccinated. Does that clear things up for you? By the way thanks for your support for all of us working with very sick covid patients and not trying to frame what we are seeing with our own eyes every day into some kind of conspiracy. It feels great to be appreciated by highly educated members of the general public.

            1. this is not about you. This is about ANYONE who is losing their livelihood because they are opting out of a dangerous experimental vaccine that doesn’t keep people from getting or transmitting the virus to others. If the jab actually made people immune and harmless to others, it might make sense.
              EVERYONE can still spread the virus, vaccinated or not.
              and THAT is sad. Because “highly educated” people like you get vaccinated and think you can’t spread the virus anymore. Then they behave irresponsibly.
              Case in point is that Hawaii no longer requires negative test or quarantine time if you’re “Fully Vaccinated”. ALOHa! Feel free to run amok spreading the virus, since your own symptoms may be reduced if you get sick. Pure idiocy.

              1. And yet the large majority of those hospitalized/dying of the virus are unvaccinated. And of course the mandates cover vaccinated people as well, because no one is denying the vaccinated folks can also spread the virus.

              2. @mediaisnotscience: you’re using a straw man argument. The medical experts, CDC, etc. are NOT saying that vaccinated people cannot get COVID. You and others like you are purposely distorting their statements and attacking the distortion in order to support your own personal and/or political views. Not gonna work pal. What they ARE saying is that if vaccinated people DO get COVID, they are much less likely to suffer the more severe (and possibly life-threatening) symptoms. A quick google search led me to an article on the CDC website from a study conducted in June of this year [https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0607-mrna-reduce-risks.html] which gave some interesting statistics regarding reduced risk of getting COVID for vaccinated individuals and reduced chances of severe symptoms for those rare cases of vaccinated people that DO get a breakthrough case of COVID. So the logic seems to be, the more people who get vaccinated, the [much] less chance they will get COVID or suffer severe symptoms if they DO get it–so there is a strong case for getting as much of the population vaccinated as possible.

                1. Look, you’re flat out wrong. The CDC has flip flopped on this multiple times. I have provided links.
                  If you can stand listening to a medical expert explain specifically why you’re wrong, go listen to Dr Peter McCullough. The Vaccines aren’t safe.

                  Dr. Peter McCullough ‘Therapeutic Nihilism And Untested Novel Therapies’ | AAPS

                  https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/565831-fauci-amount-of-virus-in-breakthrough-delta-cases-almost-identical

                  https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-201508057.html

                  https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/565831-fauci-amount-of-virus-in-breakthrough-delta-cases-almost-identical

                  https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/breakthrough-covid-cases-least-125-000-fully-vaccinated-americans-have-n1275500

        3. And since they already had COVID, to what extent were patients injured.
          They need remedial course in infection control.
          The containment. Of this virus takes multiple efforts, masking, hand washing, vaccinations and yes they may get it anyway but less severe and less risk to others, Clean up your act nurses

        4. 1.5 million illegal aliens have entered this country most of which (if not all) are not tested nor vaccinated. So, all Americans must be vaccinated but these illegals don’t? How does the democrat party justify that? Rattling off stats doesn’t justify the iron fist “Do as I say or else” mandate. It’s a Freedom of Choice!

      2. Your header says it all. What religion doesn’t support vaccines? Regardless. It doesn’t matter. Finally see separation of church and state. To many people claiming religious exemptions. It may be a hardship on those remaining but I totally agree.

        1. I wonder how many of these “religious exemptions” are just an excuse. There’s a hospital in Arkansas that had a number of religious exemption requests, based on the use of cell lines descended from decades-old fetal cells in the development of the vaccines. So the CEO sent out a memo listing 28 medications that were also tested this way, including tylenol, pepto bismol, li[itor, motrin, ibuprofen, benadryl, claritin, etc. These people all still claimed the exemption. Thus, they were then asked to sign a form attesting to their sincerely held objection to using medication tested with descendants of fetal cells, and confirming that they also refrain from using the medications on the list as well.

        2. so its interesting that for YEARS, parents have filed religious and other exemptions for child vaccines – MMR, etc. the anti-vax movement was HUGE thanks to Jenny McCarthy – a playboy stripper told parents vaccines caused autism and they all believed her.

          and that was not a problem. but now? with COVID, religious exemptions are being examined? about time! When parents put their own kids in harms way, no one said a word.

          now? interesting….

          1. Not true. If you had children (thank you God for small mercies) you would realize a lot of people have had a lot of problems with the anti-vaxxers for a very long time.

            1. Yes started by a physician who dry labed his research, in other words lied about it and was completely debunked but you cannot pull back bad data from the republcan “educated”

        3. I’m sorry but nobody should be able to slip by the vaccine mandates by claiming religious exemptions! Get the vaccine or get fired–simple as that!

        4. What religion supports abortion? These so called vaccines use HEK293 cells in there production. HEK293>> HEK293 is a cell line derived from human embryonic kidney cells grown in tissue culture. There is the RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION (not exception) you are looking for.

          1. In case you missed CODude’s post. “There’s a hospital in Arkansas that had a number of religious exemption requests, based on the use of cell lines descended from decades-old fetal cells in the development of the vaccines. So the CEO sent out a memo listing 28 medications that were also tested this way, including tylenol, pepto bismol, li[itor, motrin, ibuprofen, benadryl, claritin, etc. These people all still claimed the exemption. Thus, they were then asked to sign a form attesting to their sincerely held objection to using medication tested with descendants of fetal cells, and confirming that they also refrain from using the medications on the list as well.”

          2. Those cells are descended from fetal cells obtained in the 1970’s. There have been over 11,000 generations of those cells since. Today’s cells are only very, very distantly associated with an abortion that happened almost 50 years ago. You essentially have to refuse modern medical treatment if you don’t want anything that was developed with this cell line. That’s why even the Catholic Church approves of vaccines, cancer treatments, and modern medicine in general.

            1. The fetal lineage excuse for not taking the vax is just a strawman argument. It gives their rationale loftier ambition than just saying “I don’t want to because I want to own the libs.”

    1. What don’t we get? That natural immunity is better than the Vaxx? That you can still get COVID and spread it if vaxxed? You see the hypocrisy of what the hospital is doing. Where are the reports of all these patients getting COVID from non vaxxed? There are none.

      1. No information is released on the source of the St. Charles (or any hospital we’re aware of) COVID-19 patients, and the NBC News link in this article makes clear there is still major disagreement over whether “natural immunity” is adequate or the vaccine, as previous reports have said, still adds more protection against the virus.

        1. ScienceInsiderHealth

          Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but vaccination remains vital
          Israelis who had an infection were more protected against the Delta coronavirus variant than those who had an already highly effective COVID-19 vaccine

          https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

          Another case of bias and prejudice.

          Washington Examiner
          Fauci lacks ‘firm answer’ on COVID-19 natural immunity question.

          Once again, more evidence that 98% of studies agree with the people who funded the study.

          1. I get NY Times newsletters but don’t have a link – my home email gets backed up by my reading dozens of comments an hour.
            But today’s had this:
            While the debate over boosters rages throughout much of the Western world, Tel Aviv’s mayor says a third dose helped bring his city back to life.
            Restaurants and cafes in the seaside Mediterranean city are once again packed to the brim, says Ron Huldai, who’s been mayor of the Israeli city for more than two decades. Huldai, on his first visit to New York since the start of the pandemic, says midtown Manhattan feels eerie and quiet to him by comparison.
            “On the streets of Tel Aviv now, it’s like there’s no Covid,” says Huldai, 77. He said 99% of city workers are vaccinated.

            1. I don’t disagree with your source or conclusion, but there is a bias for vaccination, and a prejudice against recognizing natural immunity.

              The skeptical side of me suspects the prejudice against natural immunity might be because there’s no money to be made recognizing natural immunity.

              1. There are currently 15 covid patients in St. Charles Bend’s ICU, 10 are on ventilators. 13 of these patients are not vaccinated. Pray tell how is their natural immunity protecting them? You do realize that this is a novel virus which means our immune systems have no natural immunity to fight it?

                1. Natural immunity refers to people who have had Covid and recovered. They contracted Covid, and recovered from it, their immune system fought it off. They developed immunity naturally. Some people are asymptomatic, meaning they contracted Covid but did not have symptoms and were not sick….they still had it, though, and they still shed virus that could potentially cause other people to get sick

                  Millions of Americans have had covid and recovered. Millions of Americans had vaccinations. Both paths cause the production of antibodies…the debate is which person is better protected…those who recover, or those who were vaccinated.

                  There is also a concern about how vaccinations affect people who have contracted Covid naturally and recovered. They may have worse reactions to the vaccination.

                2. That’s absolutely not true me and probably about 100 people that I know had Covid before they ever announced it was around. I’m going on we are all going on 2 years of not being sick not having a problem. Been out not hiding been around people that came up positive and nothing. So all these people saying natural immunity is nothing. Well you should go back and look at your “science” critical thinking how did this all work before the government said you can’t think for yourself and we demand you do what we say. Cause look back in history never has your rights been taken for something that doesn’t work. It’s not for everyone you still get it, you still spread it. Oh and every 4 months you need another shot.

                3. if that were true, the death rate would be 100%. Our immune systems fight this off without even showing symptoms most of the time.
                  There have already been over 28,000 “breakthrough” cases with this pathetic experimental failure of a “vaccine”. And tens of thousands of deaths. most people have almost zero risk of serious illness from the virus in the first place. and if you’ve had it, you have no need for the risks associated with the garbage mRna injection.

              2. We can speculate the reasons for the bias, but that it exists is matter of fact. Leaders refuse to consider natural immunity when imposing health mandates. St Charles also refuses to consider natural immunity in their policy. I’ve looked for answers and the best I can find is news articles that attempt to discredit natural immunity in a variety of creative manners, often citing an alphabet of credentials or by contrasting non-comparable groups. One thing these articles DON’T do is cite actual scientific studies on the matter.

                1. The linked NBC story does link to some studies, but you can have dueling studies until the end of time, as shown here. I guess it all boils down to who do you trust/distrust, and it’s a tragic situation.

            2. We also have Project Veritas going undercover and having three scientists at Pfizer stating that natural immunity is better than the vaccine.

              Glad Israel is doing better, for a while there their hospitals were full of vaccinated people. Too bad they didn’t follow the lead of India as we know India has been back to normal for months now and in certain states they have almost zero covid cases.

                1. Lol – I always provide links. What, you mean is your fav news outlet didn’t show you this video. Wonder why? Find it yourself…it’s not hard to do. You can feed a man fish and he’ll eat for a day, but teach a man to fish and he’ll eat forever.
                  You’re attempting to discredit a video by posting an article to the New York Times does nothing to disprove a VIDEO no matter how they label it.
                  Being banned from Twitter is easy…question the left wing narrative and poof you’re gone. To use a Twitter ban to validate or invalidate someone further proves you’re incapable of critical thought.
                  Cult 45 member? Okay
                  For fun – name a few things from the current resident that has benefited American citizens.

                2. The New York Times? The so called news outlet who attempted to hide the killing or 2 million Jews during World War 2? The NWT is a sham of a paper and should never be taken seriously.

              1. Nobody wants to “follow the lead of India” where people were dying in the halls of hospitals and in the streets, oxygen was being sold on the black market, and hundreds of thousands of casualties. Not all of this was India’s fault (they were the first to get hit with the Delta variant), but to look at them as an example you want to replicate is total craziness.

                1. You said it “people were dying in the halls…” but look at them now. How could they have gone from from complete chaos to now having virtually no cases with a vaccinating rate under 6%? There has been a complete media black out in this except from an article from the New York Times “Mystery in India.” They didn’t discuss the treatment was being used in India, but we all know what it is.
                  Here is interesting story from Canada where they are also not allowed to use a certain treatment.
                  https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/doctor-ordered-to-leave-hospital-with-15-minute-notice-for-treating-covid-patients-with-ivermectin/
                  After reading that story go to DuckDuckGo.com and search for “ivermectin India” and you’ll see what’s happening.
                  Google won’t show you as they are protecting you from the truth.

                2. I should have said states within India that use ivermectin.
                  Not all states are using ivermectin – the states that not using it are still dealing with covid much like we are here. However, states such as Delhi, Tamil Nadu, and Uttar Pradesh where ivermectin is being used they have virtually zero new cases of covid. Utter Pradresh has a population that is 2/3 the size of the US. They currently have zero new cases of covid. Prior to ivermectin they had daily covid cases to the US.

                3. I’m fully expecting our FDA to decline ivermectin after their studies. Studies conducted with ivermectin on sars-cov-1 prior to this outbreak proved its ability to treat covid…I’ve shared this link several times. In addition we have real world applications that shows it works. We have people on their death beds and, through a court order, medical staff administers ivermectin and they “somehow” make a full recovery. We have states in India who have a very small percentage of people vaccinated and yet they have zero new cases of covid.
                  We have articles of doctors treating patients with ivermectin, the patients make a full recovery, and then the doctor is punished. What’s the big deal, if a patient has no other option why not let them take the “risk” with ivermectin.

          2. From your link. “The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated.”

          3. Your comment on “Expert” Fauci echos my statement last week- that he was on CNN and asked that question about natural immunity- he had no answer !

        2. “Natural Immunity” avoids the adverse reactions associated with the vaccines- including death paralysis, and heart inflammation. How did NBC miss all that ?

            1. 1.7 million adverse reactions noted by the VAERS data base and according to the Medicare/Medicaid CMS data base- another 50,000 Medicare recipients have “died” within a 14 day period of receiving a vaccination. When you talk about “rare” try this… that in Oregon- according to the CDC and OHA definition- that the total number of deaths due solely to the virus alone- is 80 ! And that is over more than a year and a half.

        3. So with the major disagreement over natural immunity, why the push for a vaccine that does not stop covid? The medical and health groups are clearly divided on this, which takes science out of it, because one side will only look at the science if it benefits their cause, so why the push.
          Frankly when has there ever been a president who makes the statement ” my patience is running thin” or my favorite one, ” we need to get some of these governors out of the way.”
          What president says that Barney?
          The mandate speech. Who talks to the American people that way.
          Get the governors out of the way! Really?! How does he want to do that? If he can pull that off, he can start in Oregon.

          1. The vaccines have been associated with 1.7 million adverse reactions (VAERS) and close to an additional 50,000 deaths (Medicare CMS data base)- The logical question- how does any of that “free-up more hospital space” ???

      2. Religious exemption. Total BS. Natural immunity? Something From faux news. Hipocrisy now that’s an interesting concept coming from someone who tries to disparage someone because of religion

    1. How did she blow it? Seems like she has done pretty well for herself. Oh.. I see she’s not doing what YOU want her to do. If she was vaccinated would it make you or anyone around her safer?

      1. Yes, it would. Not completely safe, as the vaccine is not 100% effective, but much safer than without it. If I am a patient in a facility, I have a right to expect that anyone coming within 6 feet of me has done all they can to avoid infection. Continuing to place unvaccinated individuals in clinical positions creates a liability risk for the employer, and St. Charles is simply not going to shoulder that liability risk.

        1. Zero difference in the transmission of Covid whether you are vaccinated or not. We are punishing people for for not being vaxxed knowing that it makes no difference in transmission. Respectfully, if you assume that because someone is vaccinated you are less likely to get covid then you are wrong. The CDC has stated this and it’s on their website. I have shared the link multiple times.

            1. you dodged his clear checkmate and changed the subject. typical.
              Severe illness is a TOTALLY different topic from transmission. Vaccinated people still spread the bug. exactly the same per Dr Fauci. So “safety” is an illusion.

              https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-201508057.html

              https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html

                1. A second red herring argument for Mr. Barney. The original argument; the nurse claims to have natural antibodies and is therefore no risk to patients is the topic. The data we need is how many reinfections happen among those who recovered from C19 over people who have gotten vaccinated. By the numbers above, we know that the fully vaccinated are hovering around 25% reinfection. …find it hard to believe the nurse if going to see contribute to anything worse…

                2. It is not. These nurses aren’t being fired because they might fill 3 more beds.

              1. But if everyone were vaccinated, it wouldn’t matter if “vaccinated people still spread the bug”, because according to the CDC, vaccinated people are 91% less likely to catch COVID. So if everyone were vaccinated, they could “spread the bug” all they want–very few people would catch it, and those rare ones that do would likely only suffer mild to moderate symptoms. Seems pretty clear to me that vaccinating as much of the population as possible is the best path forward.

                1. Wrong ! The vaccine does not prevent transmission- it only addresses severity of symptoms. These are not “immunization shots” and I would challenge your reference to the CDC. You have a link ?

              1. Generalizations are poisonous, and of course untrue.
                Oregon’s 3,919th COVID-19 related death is a 53-year-old man from Deschutes County who tested positive on April 15 and died on May 25 at St. Charles Bend Hospital. He had no underlying conditions.

        2. Yes and no. The vaccine does not help an individual avoid infection. That’s not how it works. What it does is reduce viral shedding when an individual is infected. This is good and bad. Vaccinated individuals, while less likely to infect others, are more likely to be around others when they are contagious. This is because vaccines reduce severity of illness. Vaccinated people are less likely to stay home sick in bed. As far as liability risk for the employer, I am not aware of any case law addressing the issue of passing a contagion in the normal course of life. Nurses go to work sick all the time. General policy is to stay home if a fever is present but I can tell you that with persistent staffing shortages, this is often overlooked on some shifts. Critical units are more cautious but staff do not live in a bubble, they are also members of the general public.

  1. I don’t agree with making someone get the vaccine if they can still spread to others but why is it relevant that she is 3rd generation? Who cares?

    1. But if everyone is vaccinated, very few people would actually get COVID and those few that do would be far less likely to suffer severe symptoms, which should lead to COVID becoming a non-issue to public health.

  2. My belief at this point is that C19 is here to stay for the foreseeable future and is highly contagious. If we could have stopped it with mandates, this would have been apparent by now: there is no research I am aware of showing that mandates anywhere in the US or the entire world have even slowed transmission rates, much less halted transmission in any community. To reiterate: mandates haven’t been shown a decrease the transmission rate at any time, in the US or any where in the world that I am aware of. Transmission rates are expected to go up and down due to many different factors: masking and vaccination aren’t the only factors to consider.

    Given those arguments, it is reasonable to conclude everyone will be exposed at some point in time, whether or not there are mask and vaccine mandates. In order to mandate a medical procedure, at least in my mind, the mandates should reasonably show that the procedure clearly works and is necessary to protect others, for example measles and small pox vaccinations. This is the point that many on the left miss: mandates have not been shown to provide any additional benefit over voluntary actions and everyone will inevitably be exposed. Do masks and vaccinations work? Yes they do and I do both voluntarily. But mandates have not been shown to be clearly effective. Those that are unvaccinated will be exposed and they will suffer the consequences or not and that is their choice. The delta variant is clearly going down at this point. There is indeed increasing evidence and rationale to believe that the natural infection provides more robust immunity.

    To those who support mandates, I agree that we are all in this together, what one person does affects another and most people do in fact care about their fellow human, even those who refuse vaccine mandates. But the mandates do appear to be a knee jerk, overreaction based on fear and thus don’t justify over-riding individual choice when it comes to medical decisions.

      1. Can you compare and contrast C19 versus smallpox infections and vaccine effectiveness and how the differences may make a difference supporting mandates? This seems to be where your blind spot is.

        Second, should there be a difference of standards between highly recommending health measures and mandating health measures? For example, should the CDC be able to make recommendations with the power of law?

          1. 1904 ??? Are we to believe that regressives in the Demokrat party want the nation to resort to 1904 standards ??? A year when Dr. Seuss was born- Cy Young pitched a perfect game- and the first subway emerged from the NY City Hall Station ??? Oh Yeh Mass vrs Jacobsen indeed !

              1. Your “precedent” was an immunization shot that immunized Americans against polio- rubella- the mumps- and the measles… are you still confused about these C19 vaccines ? Do you believe they are for lifetime immunization” ? It seems to be a common fallacy among the liberal front here.

    1. Bull. It was long ago legally established by the US Supreme Court in 1905 that individual liberties can be overridden by states when there is a major health crisis. This is for the greater good. Jacobson VS Massachussetts set the precident. I suggest that for those of you who don’t like it, you should get together and hire a bunch of lawyers to challenge that ruling from 116 years ago. Good luck!

      1. You are missing my point and I am very aware of this Supreme Court decision. I do agree that in public health emergencies individual rights can be overridden, for example small pox. but what are the tests and limitations on such power and has this been demonstrated for C19? This power could be easily abused if C19 is an example.

      2. And I would suggest you learn the difference between an immunization shot and a vaccine meant to boost your immune system… it’s really not that hard.

        1. Vaccine hesitancy is coming from somewhere. I assume they are getting bad information online, so I would guess this board is as good a place as Facebook…it is not like these people are actually going to the Mayo Clinic site.

          1. Vaccine hesitancy is being driven by the ongoing confusion about what the C19 vaccine really is- and that is a temporary boost to the immune system. Biden lost millions of Americans when he compared the vaccines to an immunization shot… declaring that if you get the shot- you won’t get the virus… then the summer of 2021 exploded with new cases as the newly vaccinated believed they were immune… the rest is history. This is on Biden and the Demokrat Governors who recklessly opened their states in early July.

        1. Oregone, I am unsure how you were able to read about the ingredients but you missed the part about the boosters on that same page. All I can do is lead the horse to water.

      1. “safe and effective” is a lie that can cost someone their life too, and it gets posted all the time. People who want to muzzle anyone they disagree with are disgusting and dangerous. There are multiple facets to the truth about vaccines. The vaccine can help certain people avoid serious illness (true), it does not stop transmission (true), and the vaccine kills or injures lots of people (true).
        And you need to slow down and really read your own link.
        “91% effective at preventing the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) virus with symptoms”
        symptoms. it simply reduces symptoms. not transmission.
        Transmission would be the ONLY possible justification for an employer or govt mandate.

        1. I think you might have gotten ahead of yourself. No worries. I posted a link to the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine as a rebuttal to someone saying it had only a 42% efficacy rate. I am unsure what you thought I was implying. I will not call you “disgusting and dangerous” even though you have misrepresented what I said.
          “Transmission would be the ONLY possible justification for an employer or govt mandate.” I disagree with your OPIONON, I think mandates can flatten the curve and help our hospitals with overcrowding conditions….that is my opinion and not stated as a fact although I have data to back it up. Your statement cannot be backed up with data.

          1. The data rolls in… the only way out of this is to weaken the virus, develop natural immunity to this weakened virus (herd immunity), get life back to normal… at this point, the virus remains possibly lethal to the elderly and immuno-compromised… for the rest- 98-99 percent survival is the norm.

        2. Also, “and the vaccine kills or injures lots of people (true).” That is not a fact or even a statement that can be evaluated. “Lots”? Please put a real number there and not some exaggeration or vague term. Words matter, facts are facts, your vague ramblings are neither facts or real data. I appreciate your opinions, but please realize they are just that.

            1. Thank you for the article. It is specific to Moderna and does not mention anything about death. “While follow-up is ongoing, the available data indicate that the majority of affected individuals, even if hospitalized, experience relatively mild illness, respond well to conservative treatment, and recover quickly”
              Again, I appreciate a good read, but that article is in no way relevant to our current discussion. Did you actually read it?

  3. Being “third generation” has nothing to do with this, she’s refusing to follow the conditions of her employment and has decided to voluntarily give up her career. The end.

    1. Sounds like the first and second generation in her family are a bit smarter than she is.

      The question is, what happened?

      Are we just that many (3?) generations removed from things like polio, smallpox, measles, mumps, diphtheria, meningitis, etc.. that we have people, even nurses, so easily fall prey to misinformation & disinformation regarding vaccine safety and efficacy?

      I believe there is generational amnesia about outbreaks of disease and public health history in general. Especially, a refusal to learn “inconvenient” history – A refusal to “believe in” science, as if it were Bigfoot or Santa. Mix that with radicalization by echo chambers of misinformation online and watch as our Country suffers and dies.

      1. Our country will experience much more “suffering and dying” due to the loss of freedom of individuals choosing what is put into their bodies. Not to mention disastrous economic and foreign policy, zero borders and sickeningly misguided social engineering policies. Without freedom, we have nothing. That “we” includes you, you just don’t know it yet.

        1. Our freedoms were more in jeopardy when a violent attempt took place to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power based on a secure election. The lies are still being perpetuated, doubt sown, and the rule of law being obstructed by a dictator wannabe and his minions.

    2. Exactly. I have a friend who used to be a paramedic and he told me they were required to take certain vaccinations as part of their job. If they refused, they didn’t get the job. It didn’t matter WHY they refused. If they didn’t want to get certain vaccines, they didn’t get the paramedic job. Simple as that. The End. So my response to the nurses that don’t want to get vaccinated at St Charles is two words: Bye Felicia.

      1. All branches of the US military require vaccinations to join up.

        It’s been that way for years…ask any Vietnam vet (drafted ~ no choice but to join).

        1. Military personnel are often deployed overseas- to areas with Deng fever- malaria- even small pox. The average US citizen is not usually deployed to these countries.

  4. We use religion as an excuse for wars, discrimination, and now for vaccination refusal. Even if she’s a Christian Scientists there are not strict rules against vaccination and members can receive required vaccinations. Many who pronounce their religion as an excuse for not getting vaccinated don’t truly understand their own theology…so let’s hear the blah blah.

      1. “She states that her personal decision against the vaccine rests upon her religious convictions.” You must have missed this in your rush to argue.

        1. Correct, but she does not state what they are. I think the post that said “Many who pronounce their religion as an excuse for not getting vaccinated don’t truly understand their own theology” is a generalized and misinformed statement.

          1. It’s made up BS for I don’t want to get a vaccine. I want a religious exemption for paying taxes. Not gonna get one. I wanna religious exemption because I don’t want to wear clothes in public.., not gonna get one. It’s total BS.

    1. At some point the government will be forced to override individual religious beliefs in favor of the overall Greater Good. At the end of the day, God isn’t running the country–human beings are. And as human beings, we have to do the best we can with what we have. And that is science and research. And as someone already mentioned, “religious beliefs” have been used as an excuse to do certain things which are out of step with normal society. When that doesn’t have a direct impact on Public Health, we can all look at it as a quaint little eccrenticity exercised by a minority of people. However, when “religious beliefs” are used as a smokescreen to avoid being a responsible citizen, then we have a problem.

      1. I wake up to 86 comments to moderate. 2/3 to 3/4 by you. It looks like no other TV news station in Oregon I can find still allows comments, nor folks like The Oregonian, probably in large part due to the dangerous COVID-19 comment “wars.” If this system goes, you can take all the “credit” and cry censorship in typical hateful fashion. Not sure where you’ll do so that anyone can see/care. But you’ll no longer be wasting my and others time here.

  5. 3rd generation, that would put us back in the days of polio, measles and of course smallpox. I wonder if her grandparents fought against those vaccines?

    1. “I wonder if her grandparents fought against those vaccines?” Probably not because measles and smallpox vaccines performed as intended. That is they prevented infection, offered lasting immunity, halted transmission and in the case of smallpox, completely eradicated the disease. Coronavirus vaccine does not do ANY of those things. It certainly does not eradicate the disease. What it does is reduce severity of illness in 4 out of 5 cases. It’s a small win and we’ll take it but you can’t compare this pandemic with smallpox, which had a death rate of 30%, and is gone now, thanks to vaccines that actually work.

  6. It is a rule for employment, just like drug testing. I have had to terminate a few really good employees for failed drug tests, not my choice, but the rules I needed to follow. She is just choosing not to work for St. Charles any longer, kind of a failed drug test for not taking the drug. That being said, there are vaccinated people who are infecting other vaccinated people. Seems that vaccinated people get a milder case of COVID, many times with no symptoms. So where is the harm of a non-vaccinated person working? They can get COVID, will most likely be sicker than a vaccinated person, can spread it just like vaccinated people are to other vaccinated people. Is it worse catching COVID from a person who is not vaccinated? I have not heard of a person who had COVID, then got the shot, to get it again. Has anyone? This is a sincere question, I don’t know the answer.

    1. Research has found, unsurprisingly, that the more you are exposed, the more robust your immune response. Studies looking at antibody counts find numbers increase with each subsequent exposure, whether from natural infection or vaccination. A point of contention in the political realm is these same studies also show a significant difference in immunity between natural infection and vaccination. The studies show that all else being equal, those who have recovered from natural infection have far greater immunity than those who have completed a full course of vaccination. They also show natural immunity is boosted with subsequent vaccine, and vice versa. There is debate on the merits of post-recovery vaccination (actual science debate, not political debate) but for non immunocompromised individuals, it’s not relevant as healthy individuals rarely see reinfection and when they do, much like vaccinated individuals, illness duration and severity is significantly diminished. Source of infection, whether from a vaccinated or unvaccinated individuals makes no difference. It’s all live virus. What DOES make a difference is initial viral loading, that is, how much virus a person is exposed to. Other studies show that vaccinated individuals shed less virus and do so for shorter periods. However, as is often pointed out, vaccinated people are more likely to feel less sick and therefore are more likely to go into public. I hope this answered your questions.

      1. The problem is, nobody can accurately predict what will happen for each person who catches COVID. Many will have few or no symptoms and will recover–vaccinated or not. But others will become gravely ill or even DIE. There is no way to know which will happen ahead of time. That’s one of the things that makes COVID so scary. Even younger people have become gravely ill. Remember the broadway dancer who got COVID and ended up dying? Considering this, the government can’t afford to take chances. And I don’t blame them. If you’re in a job where you work closely with other people, you should be required to get the vaccine and if you refuse then you should be removed from that position. If there are no places for you to go within the company and the only recourse for your employer is to let you go, then so be it-=you made your own choice not to get vaccinated and YOU get to deal with the consequences of that choice.

        1. “If you’re in a job where you work closely with other people, you should be required to get the vaccine”

          Please tell us why? Since you can spread the virus equally whether vaccinated or not? Please be clear and concise?

        2. Nor can anyone accurately predict what will happen for each person who receives the vaccine… in just 8 months the VAERS data base has identified 1.7 million adverse reactions “related” to the vaccines. So what were you saying about consequences again ?

      2. Ok, that make sense. I had COVID, got vaccinated after I was fully healed. I have been really exposed 3 times, not sure how many other times, but tested negative every time. I feel confident that I will not get that sick if I get it again, but worry if I have it and no symptoms, infecting someone else. Not sure who to believe on the news, Fauci flip flops on his answers, others seem knowledgeable, but natural immunity doesn’t make any money.

        1. Google works. Give it a try sometime. I’m not into link wars. I am confident in the information I share because it comes from a variety of well established, qualified and widely respected sources independent of political and media influence. It’s the best we can do, right?

    2. My coworker had Covid before the vaccine was available. Once available, she got vaccinated. Months after she was fully vaccinated she got Covid again. I know several people who are fully vaccinated and tested positive for covid. There’s also more vaccinated people out there who had covid but didn’t get tested because they weren’t that sick. When I had COVID it felt like a bad cold for a couple days. Almost everybody I know is fully vaccinated, including myself, and I have followed the mask mandate. I was exposed by someone who is fully vaccinated. Should I start insulting the vaccinated people for spreading covid and not getting tested when they have cold like symptoms? Because I sure see a lot of anger towards the unvaccinated. The few unvaccinated people I know who got covid quarantined, the vaccinated are just going about their day with a bad cold, spreading covid. I’ve heard vaccinated people say they aren’t going to get tested because they are vaccinated and out they go with their mild symptoms spreading it all over.

      1. Why can’t the vaccine critics explain why the vast majority of those very ill in hospitals now, or dying, were not fully vaccinated/unvaccinated (different entities say it differently). I’ve seen some here even say “sure it can lessen symptoms but…” then go spinning off on something else entirely/changing the subject. Isn’t that what everyone wants – fewer people very ill or dying of/with/from (another argument) COVID so the hospitals emerge from crisis mode and 1,000s of delayed “elective” but vital procedures can happen?

        1. Sounds like you’re actually whining about hospital gridlock in many of your comments. Maybe a family member can’t get an elective surgery completed? COVID is here to stay. Vaccines amount to nothing more than symptom-delay as they do not prevent variant reinfection, transmission, or ‘kill’ the virus. COVID wouldn’t be so impactful if it hadn’t happened all at 1x. Simply a capacity problem. It will take a few years to build additional hospital capacity. Terminating workers who are willing to continue to endure the subpar situation many healthcare providers are in, is just gas on the fire for the remainder of workers. You’ll probably feel confirmed in my ‘spinning off on something else’ without digesting what I’m saying. Because I see reality and accept it does not mean I don’t care about triage-level care and elective delays.

            1. Define “Greatly”. Except for the medically fragile or very elderly, the risk of serious illness or death is a tiny number to begin with. People in most age categories are 99.98% or greater likely to be just fine. There isn’t much room for “greatly reducing” anything.
              There is entirely too much use of terminology like “greatly reduces” or “far outweighs” or “pretty likely”. We are discussing science, let’s have actual data. And there have been hundreds of thousands of breakthrough cases nationwide already, and that is out of people who have been actually exposed, not out of the total number vaccinated. The experimental vaccine, which is the only one available (the FDA approved ONE version of the Pfizer only (Comirnaty), and not the one available in the US. It’s shocking how many uninformed people who have gotten the jab turn themselves into vaccine sales-people.

              oh btw…
              https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-moderna-sweden-halts-use-in-under-30s/

              1. We report specific numbers every day. Here’s today’s, for example.
                St. Charles Bend reported 67 COVID-19 patients as of early Friday, 12 of whom, were in the ICU, with eight on ventilators. All of the 12 ICU patients were not fully vaccinated and 55 of the 67 patients were not fully vaccinated, the hospital reported.
                P

        2. The OHA data has answered your question- the vast majority of unvaccinated are elderly citizens 70 and over. This corresponds with the largest group of severe illnesses and deaths- 70 and over. I might also note- that the OHA has a data base for “Congregate Living” stats that help answer your question to the critics… your link- https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/oregon.health.authority.covid.19/viz/OregonCOVID-19CaseDemographicsandDiseaseSeverityStatewide/DiseaseDeathData

      2. Anecdotal evidence/your own personal experience does not equate the greater statistical count. While we are seeing more breakthrough cases, it is still a majority of unvaccinated people that develop severe and potentially fatal covid which is overwhelming hospitals nationwide. Yes, you can get covid twice. Yes you can get covid if you are vaccinated, but the effects will be less severe and viral load less- you are technically less contagious and for a shorter time even though you can spread it. The current guidance with Delta is out there, best to remain cautious, vaccinated or not. If people you know are still taking risks right now it is on them I suppose.

        1. What exactly does “breakthrough cases” suggest ? That the vaccinated can still be exposed ? Of course they can… because these are not “immunization shots”… these are immune system boosters… the C19 is not in the same category as rubella- the measles- or polio… why the ongoing confusion here ?

            1. 25% failure rate for a vaccine that one believes is protecting them ? If these were seat belts the US auto industry would recall every vehicle on the 2020-2021 show room floor !

      1. Oh yeh- just what Central Oregon needs- another waitress and one less trained-certified-and licensed nurse ! Do you all ever listen to what yer saying- or just spouting CNN talking points !

    1. Religious exemption is not about a church. It’s about freedom to follow the dictates of one’s conscience, which is enshrined in 1A of the Bill of Rights. Those who are quick to discard freedom of religion seem to forget the primary objective of 1A is to restrict government from imposing religious observance. That is, 1A protects the freedom to be or not be religious, based solely on the dictates of personal conviction. Whether or not such exemptions are sincere, I don’t know but the constitution requires they be considered. This is being ignored by many institutions who will no doubt have to defend their case in court.

      1. Jacobson VS Massachusetts…your rights don’t take precedence over the rights of the majority and can be overruled by the state if it is considered in the best interests of the public good.

        1. It’s funny how many people cite this case law for polio vaccine (nearly 100% effective at preventing infection of a disease with a 30% death rate) and apply it to coronavirus vaccine (o% effective at preventing infection of a disease with 0.2% death rate). I wonder if they have an agenda? Nah, probably just misinformed.

          1. This is at the heart of the vaccine hesitancy… this confusion over immunization versus immune system boosters. I blame Biden for much of this. That CNN Town Hall telecast was a disaster as he claimed “immunity” for the vaccinated- weeks later the nation blows up with record setting new cases numbers- clearly “cause and effect” !

  7. Maybe do a story on the percentage of medical personnel at St. Charles who HAVE been vaccinated, versus those who haven’t? The current focus on the minority stat rather than the majority stat kinda fits with the somewhat emotional headline.

  8. My last employer said understand, accept, and comply with laws, rules, regulation, and policy. If you choose not to, we have the right to dismiss you. All subject to ADA and religious accommodation. When you understand that going in, there shouldn’t be any misconceptions. Many employees believe because they have been a valued employee for many years or like the women in this piece, a third generation nurse that they have some sort of elevated status. Sorry, that’s not how it works. Understand, accept, and comply was the rule when you were hired. It’s the rule today. It’ll be the rule tomorrow.

    1. So, then what you’re saying is that if you put years into schooling, paid 10s of thousands of dollars for that schooling, then put years of your life into that career, and suddenly a mandate was imposed that said that the kind of work you do is now suddenly mandated to hold a gun to your head in a game of Russian Roulette with your coworkers, you’d be OK with that? I mean, because afterall, it’s for the betterment of mankind that we depopulate, and many people have already voluntarily taken part, some paying the ultimate price. The gun is handed to you and it may, or may not, be loaded. You don’t know, but hey, if you want to keep the career you’ve put your life into, and possibly all you know, you’ll have to play that game.

      1. There are rare side effects to every drug advertised on TV. Are those also ‘Russian roulette’? Whether there should be a mandate is a vital matter of debate, but the reasons too many lay out in defense of their stand is unfortunate. No drug, no medicine is 100% effective, it’s always a risk-benefit analysis, but in this particular matter it’s become so politicized that facts are called lies.

      2. Theatrics aside about Russian roulette and other theatrics, yes I’d be OK with either comply with policy and procedure or separate from your employer. As a former union official, it is a management right to set conditions of employment within the law and regulation. It is a union right to negotiate implementation of those conditions. Bottom line is employees must comply with lawful working conditions or move on to another employer. Management can make policies. Labor can agree and stay or they can move on. What part of these management rights and employee rights don’t you understand?

        1. Unless you can prove discrimination (vaxxed versus unvaxxed) or even a hostile work environment (get the vax or get fired). “No jab- no job” is setting itself up for years of litigation.

  9. Whether she’s her family’s first nurse or her family has been in nursing since Florence Nightingale or Clara Barton doesn’t matter. The vaccination is a condition of employment, so she can get the shot or get canned.

    1. Actually in Oregon, there is a law against making vaccinations mandatory as a condition of employment for healthcare workers, emergency personnel, etc. Brown’s newest game is to make that law invalid. When these employees were hired, it was not a condition of their employment to be vaccinated.

      1. As was a point of discussion in Madras court hearing the other day and we’ve reported multiple times, that ORS 433.416 says
        A worker shall not be required as a condition of work to be immunized under this section, unless such immunization is otherwise required by federal or state law, rule or regulation. [1989 c.949 §3]

    1. Yea, those stinking nurses have been so selfish since day one of Covid. Now she is being selfish again. Hopefully you don’t one day need life saving care and they’re one nurse shy to save you.
      Ironically many call her selfish, when it’s the vaccinated who selfishly want those around them to be vaccinated. I’m assuming you’re aware that the vaccinated still spread covid just the same as the unvaccinated.

        1. Thanks Barney, I understand that, but it still doesn’t justify the firing of nurses when everyone still transmits the virus regards of vax status. If we all assume the CDC is accurate, then firing unvaccinated nurses would further strain the hospital system. If patients had a right to choose a certain treatment, if hospitals where allowed to use certain treatments, then maybe our hospitals wouldn’t bursting at the seams.

            1. Isn’t that why Obama shut down Fauci’s Gain of Function programs in the US ? To prevent this kind of catastrophe ? Who woulda known the little “expert” would take his wares to Wuhan ???

          1. Those unvaccinated nurses can easily contract COVID in any number of ways. Your statement that “firing unvaccinated nurses would further strain the hospital system” is unproveable and is yet another attempt to deflect from the real issue, which is: If everyone (whose health will allow for it) gets vaccinated, COVID will be far less of a threat to us as a society. If the majority of the population is effectively vaccinated, then it won’t matter if we ALL carry the COVID virus and shed it, because most of us will not get sick and those that do will likely not have severe or life-threatening symptoms. You do want people to be healthy and happy, don’t you?

      1. I think this is a very short sighted view. Have you not read about states reverting to triage care? This results in more deaths due to the level of care and also impedes anyone needing access to the hospital for emergency, non-covid related issues. If any of those people are her patients or co-workers they lose, they die. I am not sure how you define “safer”, maybe you can enlighten us?

        1. I believe this is called the “law of unintended consequences” in action. As a society, we are a larger organism and what happens in one part of that organism can and may affect other parts of that organism–for good or for ill.

        2. “Safer” meaning how being vaccinated assumes you can’t transmit covid. A short sighted view would be firing nurses when nurses are what we need. Vaccinated or not Vaccinated you still transmit covid (if infected) just the same.
          If you’re in the hospital, or in the classroom, or needing a first responder, if that person has covid regardless of their vaccination status you can still be infected with covid.
          Still curious how firing these nurses, who were once labeled hero’s, improves the hospitals ability to serve the community.

        3. No… but I’ve read about “Uttar Pradesh” in India- with a population of 200 million and a total number of C19 cases less than 500 on September 22nd. The province prescribed oral doses of Ivermectin with stunning results. It was recently revealed that the FDA has been prescribing and logging numerous cases of medicare patients for over a year now… yet the left howled with arrogance over the de-worming horse pill here. Not sure how you define “safer”- but I’m open minded enough to trust the science.

      2. Oh, don’t ya know, it’s because if she got the jab, it would be a very special jab. It would really work, unlike the people who made the choice to be guinea pigs. Their jabs obviously don’t work, which is why they need her to get her very special working one.😉👍

        1. Not to mention it would help assuage the shame from being duped into handling over their self determinism to the likes of BidenBrownFauci. Can’t be any outliers shining a spotlight on their complicity with state tyranny so they lash out at people with a brain. Laughable yet pathetic.🦅

      3. Because transmitting a disease that causes none to mild symptoms in the vaxxed is better than transmitting the same disease that causes severe illness and death in the unvaxxed. If everybody was vaxxed, Covid would be no worse than the flu in most who contracted it. Fairly easy concept to understand if you try.

      1. You’re so well versed in vaccines and their effects. Let’s ask a pulmonologist or an anesthesiologist or a cardiologist what their opinion may be. Haven’t heard one say anything other than get vaccinated. They are tired and so am I. Fed up with those of you who think they know better. What did you get into nursing for? Dumb down everyone because you’re more informed? You may think you know better but if I had a choice I wouldn’t want you caring for me. Hypocrisy. That’s what you don’t understand. Barney let’s you spew.

        1. If I place 100 pistols on a table with one having a round in the chamber and asked you to put one to your head and pull the trigger would you do it? 99% survival rate.

  10. I will start by saying I am not anti-vaccine, in fact I am fully vaccinated but this article seems to suggest there is lasting immunity following infection
    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19
    And this article appears to show historical evidence that the immunity from infection will last a lifetime.
    Questions to consider:
    If the vaccine is effective and Deschutes county has an over 65% vaccine rate, why are the covid numbers and hospitalizations so high now?
    Why is there a one size fits all approach when there are clearly multiple factors at play?
    What happened to investigative journalism and asking the tough questions?

    1. We linked to a lengthy NBC News story in this story that addresses the difference of opinion on the issue. 3 of 4 COVID cases this week and most of the local hospitalized are unvaccinated/not fully vaccinated people, so that’s why the numbers are high.

  11. Barney you allow all these wonderful community member to post bashing the same people they claimed were heroes a few months ago, but you block so many posts arguing against them it is clearly a one sided game here.

    1. I judge the wording of each comment on their own, which is why so many of yours are deleted due to offensive personal attacks. Some of yours do get through, disproving your allegation. We don’t have time to fact-check all the dubious claims, either. It’s a no-win situation but we do the best we can, and many express appreciation.

      1. Funny how that comment made it through, but my comments stating FACTS are being blocked. I guess facts don’t matter and this thread is extremely bias.

        1. Dozens of comments an hour. I have my real work to do. If in doubt, I can’t allow them. I can’t fact check every link or every claim. Feel free to go to millions of places on the web where you can say whatever you want.

    2. Heroes save peoples’s lives. Claiming to be a nurse does not automatically make you a hero and neither does advocating against a vaccine that has proven to save lives when 700,000+ people have died because of this virus.

  12. Nurses are mandated to get a flu shot.
    Healthcare care workers resisting vaccination and using religious reasons as an excuse obviously don’t care about community members.
    We are in a global public health emergency.
    This is not a hoax

      1. According to the US Census population clock website that I just checked, the population of the US is 332,821.970 at this moment (the number may be different when you check it later as it is not static). If we suddenly–right NOW, lost 2% of that number, then we would suddenly lose 665,644 mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, etc. That is the equivalent of losing the ENTIRE population of Portland plus a little of Vancouver–POOF-gone! Now, while some of you conservatives may see the loss of the entire population of Portland as a good thing, just remember that not everyone in Portland is a “filthy liberal”. And regardless of political afilliation, we are talking about human lives–actual living, breathing people. So which one of you is okay with that 98% survival rate (2% fatality rate) now?

        1. But the con argument is that the 2% fatality rate isn’t from Covid but the underlying conditions – the “they would have died anyway” theory. A good rationalization for those unimpressed by the number of deaths that ignores the impact those deaths have had on family and friends as well as the caregivers who have had to cope with watching people drown in their own fluids.

      2. Or if you look at it another way, Oregon has an estimated population of 4,289,439 from the 2020 census. If we lost a mere 2% of our population, that would be a loss of 85,789 lives–most of the population of Bend. So conservatives and anti-vaxxers, why don’t you chew on those numbers for a while.

            1. You’re right on that math–thanks for catching it. I was using a desk calculator that didn’t have enough digit space and I was too tired to realize it.

    1. Nurses are not mandated to get flu shots. What is a hoax is the idea nurses don’t care about community members. Nurses care about EVERY SINGLE PATIENT, even foul, belligerent drunks who are there because of their own willful negligence and fight nurses the duration of their stay. Nursing is often a thankless job, serving indiscriminately when people are at their most vulnerable. But many nurses are getting tired of being hated. Comments like yours drive a knife into the will to continue because many of these nurses you accuse are highly respected members of the team with a tireless history of caring for others.

  13. What is the % of people who have died from Covid without any underlying conditions? Just straight up Covid killed them? Come on Barney, I have asked several times for your number on this. Go to Wikipedia. And why are congress, and postal workers exempt from federal employees mandates regarding Covid?

    1. Of course it’s small, but many have argued strenuously against the very sad allegation that they “would have died anyway.” That is purely offensive.
      I am not everyone’s research librarian. Make your case and I’ll decide as best I can if it’s dangerous misinformation that if in doubt LEAVE OUT.
      I have no choice. We are under intense scrutiny over the alleged “lies” we’ve allowed here. People should never use anonymous comments online or dubious websites for health advice.

      1. you’ll decide “as best you can” is correct. You don’t know any more accurately than anyone else about what is misinformation. The CDC admits on its’ website in multiple places that it is “still learning” about all these issues. Yet you put a crown on your own self-admittedly uninformed head and decide what is misinformation and rule over peoples right to express opinions on undecided science.
        The hypocrisy is unbelievable.
        Do you hold advanced science or medical degrees? I do, but i can tell you don’t. You still presume to rule on high about what is allowed to be said? You should be replaced in your role. what a sham.

        1. Yes, science evolves. No, I don’t have time to fact-check all the possibly dangerous information shared from single-purpose websites of unknown reputation (though have found fact-check articles the debunk some of the so-called experts shown here)
          I am a moderator, and judgments come with the territory. So do armchair QBs who just live to criticize. I try very hard not to share my opinion but state facts or relate other, expert opinions. But your screen name indicates you have a certain position and I’m not about to change your mind.

      1. Portland area is suffering widespread closure of urgent care centers because medical facilities require medical staff to operate. No staff, no clinic. But don’t worry, just take your broken arm into Home Depot. They will get you set up with duct tape and a 2×4.

  14. St Charles doesn’t tell the public how many nursing positions they have vacant (or possibly I missed it). They are offering $10,000 bonuses plus relocation in some cases and still can’t fill them.

    St Charles says they have a 91% vaccination rate. That is overall. Redmond, Prineville, and Madras all have lower rates. Which means a lot more staff will be gone starting Oct 18th.

    For all you that think these people are easily replaceable, there was a health care hiring fair for 15,000 positions in Oregon ALONE. Fifty employers and 300 job seekers. Good luck finding employees to replace them any time soon.

    1. And oh yeah, you might want to ask them about a little known fact they may have missed; who’s paying for all those travel nurses outrageous hourly pay, hotels, food, flights across the country and special white vans driving them to and fro

  15. Religion no longer trumps science–this isn’t the dark ages. If you want to practice your faith, do it somewhere else where it doesn’t have a potential negative impact on the general public. How many horrible things have been perpetrated in the name of “religion” over the centuries? No more! If you can’t handle that, then go find another line of work!

    1. Hmm. That’s ironic as the hospitals name is St. Charles! Stop health care in the name of religion? Wow.. just brilliant. Take away the religion based hospitals and see what happens. You people are fools.

      1. And none of those hospitals have being religious as a term of employment. But being vaccinated against various communicable diseases? You bet!

    2. Please explain the science? How many people have died of just Covid? No underlying issues at all, I mean none. Please show me the percentage?the numbers tell the truth.

      1. So what are you saying, “they would have died anyway”?
        “The argument is not only morally reprehensible but also scientifically flawed, experts say. If a person has a medical condition that puts them at greater risk of complications from Covid-19, and they catch the disease and die, epidemiologists say their death certificate should list Covid-19 as the cause of death.”
        https://elemental.medium.com/theres-nothing-contrived-about-the-coronavirus-death-toll-b729f2526cec
        (Yeah 2020 but… not sure main premise changes due to Delta variant”

          1. The TOS violation of offensive personal attacks includes me. I don’t have time or inclination to do homework thrown at me by people who are just looking for more ammunition to throw at our organization. I am deleting more comments now because I have to. I may have to delete more because dozens of comments an hour take way too much time to fact-check with legitimate links of refutation.

        1. Not only is that argument highly offensive, it is also not necessarily true. For instance, a person with heart disease gets COVID and dies from complications resulting from having the two ailments at the same time. Had the person with heart disease not contracted COVID, they might have lived a lot longer. “They would’ve died anyway”–yeah, but maybe not for another 15 years!

  16. A point I would like to clarify. Denial of religious exemptions is irrelevant because St Charles internal policy clearly states NO EXEMPTIONS OF ANY KIND, including medical exemptions, as is the case with at least one nurse who simply cannot take this vaccine due to a history of life-threatening allergic reactions. She will be terminated. Is it beyond the scope of KTVZ to flush out stories like this, or are they content drumming up ridicule for religious exemptions?

    1. You don’t know what you are talking about. There are people that have had their religious and medical exemptions approved at St. Charles. It’s a matter of accommodation. There are a couple of people that have been accommodated to work remotely. The rest have been blanket-refused accommodations.

      *please educate yourself. I refer you to Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. You might want to start at section 12.

      1. Okay, I’ve read your other posts and it sounds like you are up to speed so I’m not sure what to say other that this is a rapidly evolving situation with a lot of moving parts. Thank you for the reference and clarification.

    1. Random acts of punishment is the Demokrat way- highlighted by the Obama years of “get Obamacare or get fined” ! There’s nothing new here.

  17. Before the vaccine the nurses and doctors were being hailed as heroes. They were using precautions then and I’m sure a majority of you would have gladly accepted their care if you were in the hospital. Now you want to give them the boot. I would without hesitation accept their care now knowing that they are still taking precautions.

  18. When the people the closest to the problem don’t want the vaccine, what would be their motivation? Do you think you have seen more than them? (I am vaxxed; just saying). That is a pretty weighty statement on their part. Their life is at stake more than yours. I now know many who got the Covid bad with the vaccine and many who got over it quickly without the vaccine. I still have weird side effects from the Pfizer. I couldn’t honestly recommend it in my experience at this point. What you think you know isn’t worth much IMO. No offense meant. Hopefully, this will be a good new season in the lives of who refuse to surrender their freedom.

    1. I get so tired of the whole “I ain’t surrendering muh freedums” line. Get over yourselves. Your freedom is NOT absolute. It is subjective. Our “freedoms” are curtailed on a daily basis by local, state and federal law based on serving the “greater good”. Seatbelt laws, speed limits (yes I obey them), penal codes, zoning laws, and any number of other rules, regulations and statutes define and limit our “freedoms” and what we can/can not do in our society–in the interest of living in a civilized world. Sure, we are physically capable of disobeying many of those regulations, but there are punitive consequences to be paid if caught doing so. If we didn’t have some measure of regulation, there would be anarchy and a Mad-Max kind of society where only the biggest, strongest and best-armed people or organizations would rule over everyone else. Thank God we don’t have that! Get the damned vaccine already.

  19. I support all nurses 100%. All I know is I was in the ER this week and it was scary. I spoke to one of the nurses and she was SLAMMED. It’s a like a war zone, in a way. While I was there two very sick people were coughing their heads off AND refusing to wear a mask, in the ER! Over TWO BILLION people vaccinated and very few bad reactions. Nurses need to be vaccinated, period. It’s their job. I’m sorry, but all the people against the vaccines of any kind are just proof, to me, that humans are not smart enough to survive. If Covid was killing 70% of the population it would have been the end for us.

  20. Hey, I have to take a drug test and a FULL background check at my job, If I don’t like it, guess what? I’m free to seek employment elsewhere.

    1. You want the info straight from scientist? Go watch Project Veritas. You’re being lied to straight to your face. Whistle Blowers be coming out of the wood works lately.

      1. 97% negative media coverage on Trump proves you wrong. Most trump voters don’t watch the news, liberals like you do. Who told you the shot was “safe and effective”? Who does not tell you a out adverse side effects? The answer to both is the media. So stay asleep little one the morning has not come.

        1. Well, apparently Trump himself got the jab, so he must think it is “safe and effective”. Interesting note: when Trump spoke at a rally and recommended vaccination, he got booed–by his own supposed followers up to that point.

    1. The caregivers who have confidence in the medicine and care they are doling out to their patients are still heroes. It’s those who don’t put their faith in the science and medicine they’ve studied and sworn an oath to do no harm who should be finding a new line of work.

  21. @mediaisnotscience: I couldn’t reply to your post in response to mine (and it looks like my posts are being policed by Barney on other threads–what the heck?) where you tried to tout DR Peter McCullough in refutation of my points. You tossed in some links which I did not bother to read, as I figured (rightly so as it turned out) that this “Doctor” was likely a quack. Turns out, if you research him you will find out he is in some hot water for his public views. Nice try, “mediaisnotscience”, but not quite good enough. Now, move along child and let the grown-ups talk.

  22. “Dismissed” in the headline is a bit misleading. Should be more along the lines of …”Due to changing job requirements, several St. Charles nurses choose to resign.”

  23. Hey Barney, can you please find and publish the new law from OHSA that says vaccines are mandated so we can all read it? Certainly you can do that right?

    1. Not playing your word games. Every executive order – and we’ve linked to them – cite applicable existing ORS that grant the governor/state agencies that authority, as the judge in the Jefferson County case ruled just the other day. To this point, no one has brought a successful legal challenge.

  24. Here’s an interesting article where Dr Michael Mina, Ph.D, assistant professor of epidemiology at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health was interviewed and discussed the pandemic, what we can likely expect with vaccinated/non-vaccinated people, and what the future might look like. Whether he is right or wrong, well…time will tell. But the article was an interesting read.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/breakthrough-covid-19-cases-may-be-a-bigger-problem.html

Leave a Reply

Skip to content