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Judge rejects OSP troopers’ request for order to block state’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate

MADRAS, Ore. (KTVZ) – A retired Oregon Supreme Court justice has rejected a request by 33 Oregon State Police troopers for a temporary restraining order in their lawsuit seeking to block Oregon’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate and its associated deadline of Oct. 18, which could be followed by dismissals.

Thursday’s opinion came the day after a virtual court hearing was held by retired Justice Jack Landau to hear arguments in the lawsuit filed a month ago in Jefferson County Circuit Court by Portland attorney Dan Thenell on behalf of the troopers and the Fraternal Order of Police, claiming the mandate violates personal rights and freedoms and was not authorized by the state Legislature.

Landau said in his 11-page opinion that based on case law, “the police power of the state includes the authority to enact public health laws that may have the effect of curtailing individual rights.” Landau also said Gov. Kate Brown acted within her legislatively granted authority in issuing the vaccine mandate.

“The governor and the State of Oregon have an unquestioned interest in protecting the health and well-being of the state’s employees,” Landau wrote. “Likewise, they have undeniable interest in protecting the public from the dangers posed by the COVID-19 virus.”

At least eight lawsuits have been filed to challenge the vaccine mandates, The Oregonian/OregonLive reported. Thursday’s ruling is the second denying plaintiffs a request to temporarily halt the mandates.

On Tuesday, the Oregon Court of Appeals ruled that arguments made by a group of 25 health care workers, firefighters and paramedics who are opposed to vaccination have “little to no likelihood of success” if hashed out in further court proceedings, the newspaper said.

In the Jefferson County case, Landau said the plaintiffs had not met any of the requirements for obtaining a temporary restraining order, including any “likelihood of success on the merits under any of the legal theories,” or that a failure to act now “is necessary to avoid irreparable harm.”

Along with not knowing how many unvaccinated workers will remain on Oct. 18, a number that has been shrinking by the day, Landau wrote, “the fact remains that any potential public harm from a reduction in Oregon State Police staffing must be weighed against the known risk of death, disease and disruption posted by an inadequate response to COVID-19. I conclude that the balance weighs heavily in favor of public health.”

Barney Lerten

Barney is the digital content director for NewsChannel 21. Learn more about Barney here.

Comments

149 Comments

    1. Fan Thenell a hack lawyer getting rich off these failed Trump borg kooks!!! Sooooo much losing for republicans and big fat, failed and fired Donnie the orange snowflake!!!

  1. The judges found that general public health is more important than individual freedom – what a concept! And Gov. Brown well within her legislatively granted authority too. Hooray for the pursuit of truth and the rule of law by not one but two courts.

    1. The judge is just following Supreme Court precedent. As they wrote in Jacobson v. Massachusetts: “real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own liberty, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”

      1. A precedent set in 1905 over “immunization” shots to eliminate measles- small pox- rubella- polio… Your covid “vaccine” is not an immunization shot- you will not become “immune” to the virus… so let’s stop mixing your apples and oranges and bring the discussion up to modern day scientific fact.

        1. Now you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. You do realize, don’t you, that case law can be used as precedent in other cases that may not be totally related to the original, precedent-setting case?

          1. No such think as “scientific fact”. As Barney states it, “Science evolves” but facts do not evolve. therefore science is not fact but theory and conjecture. Therefore; science can not be quoted as fact but otherwise stated as scientific theory.

            1. @Feduplocal: “No such thing as ‘scientific fact'”. Sure there is. The earth is not flat; the Earth revolves around the sun; etc…

              Science doesn’t “evolve”. It progresses. Evolving implies random chance. Progressing implies development over time due to non-random activity.

        2. Wait a minute now…only Smallpox, to my knowledge, was recognized in 1905 as a possible public health issue. Measles and other stuff came a lot later, towards the mid-point of the 20th century. So you can’t use those as justification of the 1905 Supreme Court decision!!!

          1. Actually, a lot depends on the spirit of the decision. Case precedent is used to support arguments in later cases, even if the precedent case did not exactly match the parameters of the later case. It is up to the judge to decide whether the precedent is valid or not.

  2. If you get the Jab you can still get Covid, Spread Covid and can die from Covid. This is about a controlled agenda not public health or protection. Masks do nothing except virtue signal that you are a Sheep to Leftist ideologies. Studies prove natural immunity is far superior TO the crap they put in the JAB. Lions don’t bow to Sheep.

    1. OHA has pointed out many times with stats to back them up that the risk of severe illness/death is greatly reduced if one is vaccinated. Mask benefits have been laid out here by professionals as well. And natural immunity is strengthened with the vaccine, most experts still say.

      1. Even from my own anecdotal exchanges with many individuals besides several news reports, the risks from vex side effects far outweigh any supposed benefit.
        One 41 year old woman I spoke with who has non-hodgkins lymphoma and had been stabilized with standard treatment was coerced into the jab in order to be able to see her daughter in another state. Her next blood test showed major negative indicators in red and white blood cell, nutrafil markers. Just one example of many horrible responses.
        Since I myself am on maintenance for multiple myeloma you can bet where I will tell them to stick the jabbajabba ding dong🦅

        1. In the US 400 million vaccine doses given over 187 million are fully vaccinated, very few side effects. From my own anecdotal exchanges and experiences, my parents in their 80s no side effects, myself, my wife, my daughter, 40 of my coworkers… nothing more than some slight malaise. Have you looked at the side effects of COVID? Maybe you’d notice 700,000 deaths.. Millions on ventilators or in ICUs.. Lets not look world wide. But maybe you want to believe it is a giant global conspiracy… Law of Parsimony – simplest answer is usually the correct one. A giant global conspiracy? Not very simple, people really aren’t that good with secrets.

        2. “the risks from vex side effects far outweigh any supposed benefit”[sic]? – being dead is a side effect for many hundreds of thousands of individuals that didn’t seem to factor into your calculus – seems like a fairly important side effect not to be overlooked

        3. Is she receiving treatment for her cancer? Because nutrafil levels are constantly effected by this. On a daily basis. Even patients who have stopped chemo,etc. that’s why they check them.

        4. Oregonami, I just can’t believe this comment. I thought I’d read it all. I also can’t believe your friend who believes her nutrafil levels were dramatically changed by the vaccine and not her cancer treatment. You realize every time she takes a blood test it will be different. I have conversations with a doctor from Fred Hutch about this on a weekly basis. I highly suggest them.

      2. Says the “Moderator” who defends all the CNN/ktvz propaganda. Only time will tell the long term effects of this shot. There are THOUSANDS of reports of severe side effects and death from the VAX but those reports from Doctors, families of the dead, and recovered patients are censored and silenced by big tech, The Media and the Government. The fact is your experts haven’t gotten hardly anything right, they flip flop, guess and misinform. So Barney the “Moderator” you have not been informative and you serve misinformation up like they are facts.. they are not. Masks cant even keep dust out of your lungs let along a virus like covid. Masks are just an outward sign that you submit to this stupidity. You are lowly Sheep.. not strong.. not smart and not trusted.

              1. “Update: FDA No Longer Authorizes Use of Non-NIOSH-Approved or Decontaminated Disposable Respirators – Letter to Health Care Personnel and Facilities”… June 30, 2021… “The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is revoking the Emergency Use Authorizations (EUAs) for non-NIOSH-approved disposable respirators (revocation effective July 6, 2021) and the EUAs for decontamination and bioburden reduction systems (revocation effective June 30, 2021). As of the effective date of the revocations, these devices will no longer be authorized for use by health care personnel in health care settings.”

                1. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html#crisis-capacity
                  ————————————————-

                  Healthcare facilities were working under strategies for optimizing supplies of facemasks. If you follow the link above it takes you to the CDC and to a page which outlines the various strategies under headings of Conventional, Contingency and Crisis. At the top of the page is a note from CDC clearly stating that the changes (to which BGHW) alludes are mainly due to a now greater supply of better facemasks.

          1. The authorities have been wrong since day one- when Fauci derided masks- Pelosi invited the world to Chinatown during the initial outbreak- and Biden declared President Trump a racist for closing air space out of Wuhan ports.

            1. And Trump BS’d the country regarding the seriousness of Covid and even tossed out comments about stuff that would not fend off Covid but certainly would likely be harmful to people if they took it. You seem to have a short memory, Blarney.

            2. …and by the way, Dr Fauci was making a statement based on information they had at that time and when new information came out he changed his stance in favor of masks. Sounds like what any good sciencey person would do, no? Below is a link to a Newsweek article fact-checking the claim that Fauci advised against masks. If you bother to read the whole article, the explanation does make sense…

              https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-dr-fauci-say-no-masks-like-trump-claiming-1540383#:~:text=%22Dr.%20Fauci%20said%20the%20opposite%2C%20he%20very%20strongly,pandemic%20during%20a%20March%20interview%20with%2060%20Minutes.

        1. – since there are THOUSANDS, as you so loudly assert, put one up, any one of the THOUSANDS (the all caps thing is pretty silly)- stop insulting people and put up your information – would really like to read even one of your mask references, unless you are doing your own mask trials, in which case would like to read the results of that too – convince me

          1. I just posted the most recent update from the FDA above- your dust masks- face coverings- and face shields are no longer accepted for use by medical professionals in the USA… so why would you ?

            1. But you don’t tell the whole story, BGHW. The reason isn’t that the FDA suddenly had a breakthrough discovery that non-surgical masks weren’t as good as full-on filtered masks or respirators. The reason is mentioned in the actual CDC link I posted below your “quote”(where’s your link, btw?). And that reason? There are now more of the better quality masks available for healthcare providers to use. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that medical professionals were in crisis mode and supplies of the better masks were very low or non-existent for a while. There is not major discovery here, no revealing of a “filthy liberal” conspiracy. It’s just the natural result of a now-increasing supply of better medical-grade ppe.

            2. no kidding – that doesn’t mean that they are not helpful in limiting the spread of the vaccine no matter how you try to spin it – time for a new tactic

            3. – as for the “why?” – because it has to do with other people and it isn’t all about me, something you have demonstrated again that you just don’t understand

        2. I would far rather have any long term effects from the vaccine than the long term effects I’m seeing from those that caught COVID. Know someone that moved to Kansas (anti mask and vax), caught COVID after two weeks being there and got to spend two lovely fun filled weeks at the VA hospital in Witchita (took at 3 hour drive to get there). Now he is trying to return to his brand new job but complains about chronic fatigue, coughing, inability to breathe and lower intestine issues – a month after catching it. So many stories out there like this. The rest of us just don’t care if you get sick and have chronic issues after catching it, but your medical bills will definitely show it to you!

      3. Someone in the mainstream media would believe all of this. Science contradicts some of what you are saying. Barney, I’m sure you remember when the media was a source of “REPORTING THE NEWS”

      4. Yet other “professionals” state otherwise. You choose to listen to different “professionals” And, I know of no expert that would vaccinate someone who has immunity.

        1. We have quoted many expert sources that say vaccines increase the effectiveness even with those who have recovered from COVID.
          We even posted an NBC News link other day on the debate on the facts and studies, trying to go beyond those who only believe the “professionals” that reinforce their own biases.

        2. How do you know someone has immunity from having had COVID before? Experts say that you CAN get COVID a second time if you’ve had it once before. Your argument is weak.

    2. “In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. These data further indicate that COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone and that vaccines, even after prior infection, help prevent reinfections.”

      https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html

        1. Exactly. I’d like to see where any of you libs can prove that getting vaxxed will increase our chances of avoiding getting sick or dying. Well?

      1. Martha’s post, while factual, is weak support in favor of vaccine mandates for previously infected individuals. This is a study on reinfection, not infection. Here’s why that matters. Using the CDC’s own numbers, reinfection is exceeding rare, involving less than 1% of cases. Of that 1%, about 30% are subsequently vaccinated. So for example, in a city of 100,000 we can expect that about 30,000 have been infected. One percent, or 300, experience reinfection. Of those 300, 200 are unvaccinated and 100 are vaccinated. Of those 200 unvaxed, we can expect 75% will experience mild symptoms. So that means 50 unvaccinated people who will struggle with severe illness from reinfection. That’s it, 50 people in a city of 100,000. That’s the math. And here’s the kicker: these 50 already survived once. It would be difficult to argue a different outcome is expected for their second infection. But the message they present is “unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected” which while completely true, is also completely irrelevant as it pertains to just 0.0005% of the population.

        1. Now compare that to the number of vaccinated who might experience severe illness from infection.
          Or, if you want to say that 50 people out of 100,000 isn’t a big deal, compare that to the number out of 100,000 vaccinations who will experience severe illness from getting immunized (hint: it’s much, much smaller).

          1. “Also 50/100,000=0.0005 That means 0.05%, not 0.0005% as you say. If you want to bring up number crunching” Yep, good catch. I always worry I’m going to mess up the math… and there it is.

    3. I assure you, that I am neither a sheep, nor a leftist.
      I got vaccinated because I didn’t want to die, neither from a cytokins storm, Nor die by drowning in a bloody puddle in my lungs.
      Lie in a closed coffin, because the legions, huge open wounds, left very little recognizably my face.

      You obviously don’t know what the vaccine contains, nor how human antigens are programmed to target specific protein spikes.

      Maybe your the sheep, as your the one mindlessly repeating, the repeatedly shown to be disinformation.

    4. – well, your first sentence is somewhat true, but painfully misleading because there is no context such as: compared to what? Underlying conditions?, how often? age? and especially in comparison to not being vaccinated – either you have been terribly misled and are just repeating something, or you are well aware of how specious an argument it is and are presenting it for motivations only you can answer for – the comment about masks is completely, empirically false and the motivation you list for it speaks for itself – natural immunity did nothing for the hundreds of thousands of diseased, now did it? – lions get shot by trophy hunters just for minding their own business and why are you so preoccupied with sheep? – how about some common sense?

      1. While I greatly respect the office of President of The United States, I don’t necessarily respect the man who occupies that position. I despised Donald Trump and I don’t have much better feelings about Joseph Biden. Conservatives are trying to use Biden’s gaffes as a weapon against vaccines. No, sorry–you don’t get to do that. Biden is not a scientist. He is a politician. He may be a decent guy in other areas of life (or not), but he is most certainly not competent to be telling the American people what they should/shouldn’t do with regard to COVID. He should defer to the CDC folks. I have no issue with Dr Fauci either. He has maintained since the very beginning of the pandemic that advice and knowledge may change based on research and experience as time goes on. Thus there may be back-and-forth advice coming from the CDC and Fauci. That makes total sense when dealing with a new novel virus. I admit that I do have certain liberal leanings, but I also have certain conservative values–as is my right as an American citizen. So let’s trust the scientists who are more focused on the research and less focused on politics, shall we?

        1. Wrong on many counts- shoulder rubbin’ Joe is systematically destroying the US through hyper inflation- surging fuel prices- a demoralized military- and absolutely no game plan to halt the spread of the Wuhan virus… if you trust the science- then you would have to agree- this is a mild virus- 98% survival- the vaccines are not “immunization” shots- but nothing more than a short term dose of happy-feely. I’ll let the US constitution be my guide- Fauci should be in prison !

          1. @BGHW—uh…NO. The claim that rising prices are Biden’s fault has been discredited soundly. I won’t post links as it is easy enough to research if one has a mind to. The facts are that producers of materials have been unable to provide the same quantity to the marketplace due to the impact of the pandemic worldwide. When supply decreases and demand increases, prices go up. That’s Economics 101. There has also been talk of how many Americans have some extra money in their pockets due to the stimulus checks and so are able to spend that money on things, further increasing demand.

            1. “Discredited”- you mean like Hillary’s e-mail accounts- Russia-Russia-Russia- Hunter’s activities in the Ukraine ? Nobody believes that line- but here’s what 70% of Americans “blame Biden and his policies for… “According to BLS, the cost of many goods and services have increased significantly:

              Gasoline has increased 45.1 percent.
              Energy 24.5 percent.
              Bacon has increased 8.4 percent.
              Fresh fish and seafood has increased 6.4 percent.
              Fresh whole milk increased 7.5 percent.
              Fresh fruits increased 8.4 percent.
              Major appliances increased 13.7 percent.
              Furniture and bedding increased 8.6 percent.
              Footwear increased 6.5 percent.
              Airfares increased 24.6 percent.
              Commodities have collectively increased 9 percent.

              “Discredited” indeed !

              1. @BGHW: OMG! You seriously expect ANYONE except dyed-in-the-wool conservative extremists to believe what you just posted? It takes only the bare minimum research online to refute much of what you just said. Just taking one of your factoids–higher fuel prices, I can point to a few sources that debunk what you claim: CBS, Politifact, and Forbes. I’m sure there are others but I’m not going to bother. You made the accusations–YOU prove them with actual links to sources. Good luck.

      2. Could you provide a link where President Biden actually said that vaccinated people don’t spread COVID? He DID say in a town hall meeting on July 21st that if you are vaccinated, that you won’t catch COVID, that you won’t be hospitalized or end up in ICU or die. Those are all false. Those things CAN happen even if you are vaccinated–but they are rare, according to the CDC.

    5. That’s a simple truth you state “How about common sense”… as you can see, these days there is VERY LITTLE common sense left here in Oregon sadly. It has become the crazies running the asylum.

    6. You are partially right… there is a controlled agenda in place- to drag this virus out till the midterms and force another “mail-in” election- the likes that produced “Resident Joey and Hunter Biden in the WH.

    7. Uh…no.

      Would you like to provide some links to data that support your statement–aside from that cited by folks like Dr McCullough, who might be about to lose his license? The FACTS are that vaccinated folks are far less likely to catch COVID, and IF they do, are far less likely to have severe symptoms. That has been established by the CDC. So the logical path of reason leads us to the point that if the majority of the population is vaccinated, then we as a society are much safer from COVID than if the majority were not vaccinated. Please feel free to prove me wrong with with peer-reviewed links….I’ll wait.

      1. “vaccinated folks are far less likely to catch COVID” ? How so ??? The vaccines are not “immunization shots” like Biden alluded to. He was dead wrong in telling his base that the vaccines “prevented” exposure… completely 100% wrong !

        1. @BGHW: So you don’t think that vaccination reduces the risk of being infected with COVID? According to the CDC–which uses those doctor and scientist-types–studies are showing that vaccinated people are 8 times less likely to be infected and are 25 times less likely to be hospitalized or die. See the link below under the subheading “What We Know About Vaccine Breakthrough Infections” and read the last paragraph. And yes, as I pointed out in a previous response up-thread (which is still awaiting moderator approval as I type this), Pres. Biden DID spread some misinformation by saying that if you were vaccinated that you wouldn’t catch COVID, end up in a hospital or in an ICU or die.

            1. Well, actually there is some disagreement about the CDC claims. You can’t take everything the CDC says regarding the pandemic as “gospel” because they don’t have a full and complete dataset. They may turn out to be correct (or not) in their recommendations, but we won’t know until probably a couple more years. They are a public health agency and are probably influenced by any number of behind-the-scenes variables to try and put the best face on things for the public–likely to avoid mass panic. DISCLAIMER: some of this is my opinion. However, what is NOT just my opinion is that other medical health practitioners are offering other views which make some sense, and not all of them are trying to support a particular political side. Take Dr Michael Mina, MD, PhD, for example. He is Assistant Professor of Epidemiology at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health and a member of the Center of Communicable Disease Dynamics. Below is a link to an interview he did. Judge for yourself.

              https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/breakthrough-covid-19-cases-may-be-a-bigger-problem.html

  3. This is ridiculious!! What lawsdid she inact?? She cant!! Only the legislature can and they havent. Curtail individual rights? I think not and her mandate is ILLEGAL!!! Look it up!!

      1. Do we yet know how many OSHA fines- for businesses refusing Brown’s mandates- have been paid in full ? I know that Oregon OSHA’s Michael Wood bolted town with resignation in hand- he shoulda done it back in March of 2020 !

    1. – this is the decision of a judge who’s job it is to interpret existing laws, not write laws – should probably have at least a rudimentary understanding of how these things work before commenting on them – this is America where, for better or worse, the rule of law is the way things roll – all the caps and exclamation points in the world aren’t going to change that

      1. Uh, y’all do realize that the case in Jefferson County is going to get set aside, right? Just do some basic research into the Oregon appeals court from as late as yesterday and you will see the writing on the wall, as it were. Nice try though, Trumpers. Losing is becoming a habit for y’all and quite entertaining for lots of us.

        1. Why don’t you provide some citations of law which support your side’s argument? Oh, I know why–it’s because you CAN’T! Welcome to life in a world run by “filthy liberals”. Enjoy!

          1. Why don’t we all sit back and wait till the good retirees stop meddling in the nations Constitution before boasting of legal victories ? This will go to the SCOTUS. Last I checked- that room was dominated by “filthy conservatives”.

            1. Whichever way the Supreme Court is weighted, politically, I would hope that they would agree amongst themselves to rule in a way that benefits society as a whole and not just in favour of their dominant political party.

    2. From what research I was able to do, the governor of Oregon can declare a State of Emergency and under that State of Emergency declaration, they are granted broader powers under the law. At the time Gov. Brown issued her Executive Order (Aug 13), Oregon was still under a State of Emergency for COVID. That SoE expired in September, I believe. So as far as whether Gov. Brown had the legal authority to issue her executive order, it’s looking like she’s on solid legal ground there, based on what I see happening with these cases.

  4. FGS…read the article. The legislature gave Oregon’s governor emergency powers. The judge found Brown used them according to the statutes the Legislature approved. SMH. The mandates have the force of law.

    1. What “emergency” are we talking about ? The data is clear- the virus negatively affects a small segment of the worlds population. Over 70 and those with underlying conditions. Since when did 98% survival equate a national “emergency” ? For the millions of “survivors”- bed rest- fluids- and OTC meds have been prescribed- where’s the emergency in that ?

      1. Oh GREAT. The ancients are now trying to interpret law and MESSING UP. MOST of what Gov/Dictator Kate Brown is unconstitutional. An EMERGENCY is not meant to exist for YEARS but for weeks or perhaps months. NOT year after year. Just watch Barney… there will be MORE mandates due to MORE virus mutations (which all viruses Do, which is why there has never been nor can there ever be, a vaccination for the common cold). No, Barney. Our Governor is enjoying her power of taking AWAY all Oregonians choice and free will.

              1. According to your link- The Oregon Supreme Court does not use these Plan B judges. This “part-time” retiree will have this decision tossed/appealed… a real waste of time.

        1. The law that exists to allow the governor to do this was never meant to give the governor unfettered power with no limitations or time constraints. Anyone who thinks it should, need to leave America and live in a different country.

          1. So you can’t provide any proof that the mandate is “illegal” so you come up with personal opinions on what you think the law that allows the Governor this action “really” means. Sorry doesn’t work that way.

    1. The judge scheduled to hear the case unexpectedly retired. Part of judges responsibilities when they retire (in general) is to cover courts for at least 6 months. Just part of their deal. I thought was kinda cool the judge who covered was a retired Oregon Supreme Court judge!

      1. Oregon law on this is clear- at 75- you must retire. Obviously the decline of “cognitive” decision making skills are at issue. I have no problem with these Plan B’ers holding court over shoplifting and J-walking cases- but not for an issue this important- this is making a mockery of the Oregon judicial system- Thanks Kate !

        1. Donald Trump is 75. Based on your comments, you won’t support him running again given his age induced cognitive decline making a mockery of the office of POTUS.

          1. “President Trump” doesn’t smoke- drink- do drugs like the Biden family- he passed his physicals- cognitive tests and even a three day bought of the “lethal covid” with flying colors- Seems some 75 year olds just age better than others… now what’s Sleepy Joe done for a lately besides mumble something about a jobs report and jack up yer fuel bills ?

  5. “I think not and her mandate is ILLEGAL!!! Look it up!!”

    Umm, Former Supreme Cour Justice Jack Landau did look it up and says what the Gov. did is legal. That was the point of the story.

    1. Ha ha, now that made me actually laugh! There is no way in HELL that Donald J Trump will ever hold presidential office again! Too many people saw his supporters self-destruct after he got SPANKED in the last election. OMG that news conference that Giuliani held in front of the landscaping business–that was priceless! Trump, Giuliani and their cohorts are a joke in American politics now–and there is now way they’ll hold significant public office again on a national level. I feel sorry for any of their kids who are trying to distance themselves from them…their lives are going to be challenging now.

      1. Oh My- when was the last time we heard this ??? “There is no way in HELL that Donald J Trump will ever hold presidential office…” ! It’s safe to say- looking at Biden’s collapsing approval numbers… especially among the Independents… Kamala Harris aint about to “unite” the country… President Trump will be back with a fury.

      2. While I agree that the chance of Trump being reelected is slim to none at best,
        never say never. I remember a lot of liberals that repeatedly swore that there
        was absolutely no way Trump could win against their golden child Clinton…
        I voted for Trump but I wouldn’t vote for him again because he completely derailed.
        On the other hand, the Biden administration is also derailing. Now we have a token delusional President that isn’t even allowed to answer questions because he will sound
        like a complete idiot. Never before have we had a President that allowed himself to be controlled and manipulated like he does, but he probably doesn’t even realize what is happening. I’d like to know who is actually running the country because it certainly isn’t Biden, and obviously it’s not Harris either because they keep her hidden and don’t allow her to speak either…

    1. The polio shot is for immunization- as in becoming “immune”. The covid vax is not- even after injection- you can easily catch and transmit the virus. There is a huge difference that many on the left continue to confuse.

      1. “Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against polio; three doses are 99% to 100% effective.
        A person is considered to be fully vaccinated if he or she has received:

        four doses of any combination of IPV and tOPV, or a primary series of at least three doses of IPV or trivalent oral poliovirus vaccine (tOPV)
        AND
        The last dose in either series should be given after 4 years of age and at least 6 months after the previous dose.”
        https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html

        So I guess the polio vaccine is not a vaccine as it is not always 100% effective and guess what it takes three shots.

      2. @BGHW: “you can easily catch and transmit the virus”—which contradicts what the CDC–a world-renowned scientific and research organization says. According to them you are 8 times less likely to get COVID after being fully vaccinated, and IF you do still get COVID, your 25 times less likely to suffer hospitalization or death. Who should we believe–you or the CDC? Hmmmmmm….?

  6. I have a suggestion for a story, Barney. Send someone to interview the employees of St. Charles who were cleared to keep working, but have decided to quit. The reason that many are quitting is this. They believe that St. Charles is acting unethically and unconstitutionally when it comes to firing those former “heroes” who were on the front lines of the Covid battle since the beginning. So there is a real story. This movement will result in even longer wait times to get treated for any health issue at St. Charles. This mandate plan is going to work out just great. I know this story doesn’t go with what CNN wants people to hear, but prove that KTVZ is truly independent in their thinking and cover that story. Once again, these healthcare workers who are quitting were cleared to keep working, but they cannot in good conscience continue to work for an unethical company like St. Charles. I suggest you speak with those in HR at St. Charles. They know about this.

  7. Read it before you delete it please Barney.
    I have read extensively through this thread and the thread about nurses, not to mention following many others as of late. I’m disappointed in myself to have followed so many as it pays Barnys’ salary, and all he does is worsen the situation by limiting comments from the right which are verbatim what I see from the left approved. Following these threads it seems there are maybe a dozen consistent commenters, I have to wonder if some aren’t the same with an alter ego handle? Some seem smart, others just “ROTFL, LOL, 👍, ORANGE MAN BAD. SOOOOO MUCH LOSING!!!” You know who you are; you’re just inciting anger, a coward behind a cell phone who would never dare say such things to someone’s face. This millenia I have watched this country weaken. From education and decency to our stance in world affairs and basic individual rights. We are going down the path of so many civilizations before. The American experiment was good, and the best test of a government our founders could envision. But from there people trend towards finding a way to ruin it for thier own selfish gain. Does anyone else sense these as a portending storm? Are we all, collectively and individually too blinded to avert our own demise? I feel anymore that I am just shouting into the wind. Logic, feelings, reasoning, emotions, left, right: all comes down to religion, and nature vs nurture. We all have memory, which makes objective thought impossible. Therefore to live in this world we all must settle on a “religion.” Some may not like that title but it is simply a word that describes the human need for a set of beliefs they hold by faith. No one can prove to absolute certainly what they believe is “true.” However, once that “faith” is established in the individuals mind they seek out to convert others, become self righteous, oppressive even to the point of tyrannical in thier attempts to proselytize. In 100 years few of us will still be alive. What will exist then will likely look back, as all of us do. What do you want said of you? Will you have been a voice of reason? Will your name be known, even to your posterity? Will you be an individual with your own thoughts, or a part of a collective movement? Are any of these better or worse than others? This would appear as a kyklos of global proportion. As individuals we no longer respect eachother or have the intellectual honesty to admit our wrongs. As a collective whole we are divided, amongst ourselves and even on a global level. So my question is: how does the individual stand for thier beliefs without hurting the whole, of which they are a part, (liberty)? What liberties will you sacrifice in the name of autonomy, (freedom)? What decency is left in us to treat humanity with respect? And are you so self righteous as to ignore what I’m saying? Imperfect as I know I am, I know this: that I know nothing.

    1. I read it. You are WRONG that we only delete conservative comments. That belief is part of the very problem you speak of – that one side is holy, the other is evil. THAT’s the virus that could destroy the country. Each comment is judged on the words used! From ANY perspective. The comments allowed from ALL sides here EVERY day (and the ones deleted as well, but that calls for something called “trust” — a scarce commodity any more unless they are on “your side”) prove that wrong.
      Want a world that respects each other? How about respecting the moderator and the organization he works for. Flawed? Sure, we’re humans. But the people who claim we have an “agenda” are usually the ones upset that THEIR agenda isn’t followed/reported on and the other “evil” side ignored.
      Damn shame.

  8. Well props to you for posting it. My frustration stems from my last several posts being deleted, seemingly for verbiage I later saw used, and allowed, by more left leaning arguments. End of the day I don’t know what you deleted or allowed. I’m not trying to be disrespectful but, I am not going to pretend it’s not frustrating to have my input shut down for something that seems allowed from the “other” side. You are clearly left leaning, and the thrust of my argument was that we all settle, for whatever reason, on our own form of “religion.” That’s any individuals right, as long as America stands. However, if we really want a conversation, feelings might get hurt. But if that’s the price paid for introspective thought, maybe we’d come out closer as a whole instead of “my side” and the “other side.”

    1. @BSBYMH: “…maybe we’d come out closer as a whole instead of ‘my side’ and the ‘other side'”. Based on the comments I’ve seen in these threads, I seriously doubt it. Politics in America over the past couple decades or so has seen to that. I admit that I am left-leaning in certain areas but right-leaning in others. I don’t fit totally into either the Democrat/Liberal or the Republican/Conservative categories. I guess you’d have to call me a “filthy independent”. Sadly, “independents” who chose neither of the extremes are apparently small in number, to the point where they have to throw their lot in with one of the two big parties or not vote at all. I do my best to base my views on facts and science–regardless of politics. That’s why I don’t trust what I see on Fox News OR CNN without seeing what other sources say on the matter. I have no problem calling BS on any side. Truth is truth. If there is more than one way to look at a set of data, then I call it as such. What infuriates me is folks on this site who knowingly attempt to propagate misinformation in order to support their personal political leanings and who vehemently refuse to acknowledge mistakes or failings within their own party. I’m not perfect–lord knows. But I do my best to always be honest.

      1. Well thank you for the perspective Fabiouso. I certainly don’t consider independent as filthy. To my point it is just a denomination of a religion, politics being “god.” Independent could be viewed as agnostic, where hard left or right would consider thier cause as “righteous” and the “others” “sinners.” Consider that the first step of genocide according to the Stanton paper is an “us” “them” division. Any individual has the right to believe thier angle concerning what they hold to be truth. I would consider myself, like you, to make every attempt at honesty. If it could be proven that anyone “knowingly attempt to propagate misinformation in order to support their personal political leanings,” I find this to be the case most often in our media, and yes it’s infuriating. It is incumbent on the individuals of a society to be intellectually honest. And we must also always remember that your right to swing your arms ends just where anothers nose begins. We all must settle on some set of beliefs to exist in life. However, once the trenchworks are dug and “them” vs “us” overrides logic, reason and decency; that is when we lose civil society and the honest search for truth turns to a form of supremacism.

  9. Maybe, who knows, who cares. End of it all I’d like to say if I ever meet you, or any of the handles here that I may disagree with around town, be it over a beer or out and about with my family, I’ll act with civility and respect to differing opinions. We are herd animals for the most part, and agree or not with opinions of others, I benefit, and contribute, from and to society. That being said I’ll try and self moderate what I post so you don’t have to so much. Hat tip to ya, I may disagree with your politics, but I appreciate diversity of opinion and an honest discourse.

    1. Thanks. If we ever get WPDiscuz or another community-moderated system, we may see more valuable contributions rise to the topic and the endless flame-warz sink into invisibility. Or trolls will game it and the whole thing goes down the tubes. Who knows.

  10. The idea that once someone enters a career, they give up their rights of self-identity and freedom of choice is not what we are taught America stands for. Why can’t there be a policy of courtesy? If it is preferred a mask is worn around others, while on shift, can’t it be requested? In my work it is “required” and I keep my mask on. However, I give the option to those I serve. It’s courtesy. We’re all doing our best to get through this and we all have reasons we feel as we do about wearing a mask.

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