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Uvalde school shooter was in school for up to an hour before law enforcement broke into room where he was barricaded and killed him


CNN

By Isabelle Chapman, Daniel A. Medina, Nicole Chavez, Dakin Andone and Elizabeth Wolfe, CNN

The gunman who killed 19 students and two teachers at a Texas elementary school Tuesday was on the premises for up to an hour before law enforcement forcibly entered a classroom and killed him, officials said Wednesday.

“It’s going to be within, like 40 minutes or something, (within) an hour,” Texas Department of Public Safety director Steven McCraw told CNN’s Ed Lavandera at a news conference.

The 18-year-old shooter, Salvador Ramos, was in a standoff with law enforcement officers for about a half-hour after firing on students and teachers, Rep. Tony Gonzales, whose district includes Uvalde, told CNN’s Jake Tapper, citing a briefing he was given.

“And then (the shooting) stops, and he barricades himself in. That’s where there’s kind of a lull in the action,” Gonzales said. “All of it, I understand, lasted about an hour, but this is where there’s kind of a 30-minute lull. They feel as if they’ve got him barricaded in. The rest of the students in the school are now leaving.”

Raul Ortiz, Chief of the US Border Patrol, told CNN that agents arrived at the scene after police officers engaged the suspect at the school. Several members of the Border Patrol tactical team, a search and rescue responder and a few other agents joined local officers to form a team that went after the gunman.

“They didn’t hesitate. They came up with a plan. They entered that classroom and they took care of the situation as quickly as they possibly could,” Ortiz told.

That ended the second deadliest shooting at a K-12 school in the United States since 2012, when 26 children and adults were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It was at least the 30th shooting at a K-12 school in 2022, according to a CNN tally.

LIVE UPDATES: Deadly shooting at Texas elementary school

The gunman was a local high school dropout with no criminal history and no known mental health history, officials said. He had just turned 18 and legally bought two AR-15-style rifles and ammunition for his birthday. His grandfather said Wednesday he didn’t know Ramos had guns.

“If I had known I would have reported him,” Rolando Reyes said.

Gunman allegedly texted teenaged girl in Germany on day of shooting

The gunman allegedly texted a girl who lives in Germany about his intentions just before he shot his grandmother in her home and left for the school in her pickup.

According to screenshots reviewed by CNN and an interview with the 15-year-old girl — who said she had been in contact with the gunman for weeks — Salvador Ramos complained about his grandmother being “on the phone with AT&T abojt (sic) my phone.”

“It’s annoying,” he texted.

Six minutes later, he texted: “I just shot my grandma in her head.” Seconds after that, he said, “Ima go shoot up a(n) elementary school rn (right now).”

The last message was sent at 6:21 p.m. Central European Time, which was 11:21 a.m. in Texas.

The girl, who lives in Frankfurt, said she began chatting with Ramos on a social media app on May 9. Ramos sent the girl selfie videos and discussed a plan to go visit her in Europe, according to videos and text messages.

The girl, whose mother gave permission for her to be interviewed, said she spoke to Ramos daily on FaceTime. She said she also communicated with him via a social livestreaming app called Yubo and played games with him on a gaming app named Plato. In their conversations, she said he asked about her life in Germany. “He looked happy and comfortable talking to me,” the girl said.

The texts to the girl are similar to messages that Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said Ramos wrote on Facebook.

Those disturbing writings, Abbott said, came as the suspect indeed shot his grandmother, drove to nearby Robb Elementary School, forced his way inside adjoining classrooms and opened fire at a group of kids and faculty. Officers eventually forced their way into the barricaded room and a Border Patrol officer fatally shot him, Abbott said.

A spokesperson for Meta, Facebook’s parent company, said the gunman’s messages were made in private one-to-one texts that were discovered after the shooting.

Now, the city of Uvalde, about 90 miles west of San Antonio and just east of the US-Mexico border, finds itself on the long list of American communities devastated by mass shootings.

So far, seven 10-year-olds and a two fourth-grade teachers have been named publicly by relatives as among the dead.

Parents waited late into Tuesday night at a civic center to learn whether their children had survived, some having given DNA to help authorities identify victims, they told CNN. Authorities have since identified all the victims, whose remains have been removed from the murder scene, and notified their families, Texas Department of Public Safety Lt. Chris Olivarez said.

President Joe Biden said Wednesday he will visit Uvalde soon.

“As a nation, I think we all must be there for them,” Biden said. “And we must ask when in God’s name will we do what needs to be done to if not completely stop, fundamentally change the amount of the carnage that goes on in this country.”

So far, there have been more mass shootings than days in 2022 — including the racist attack at a Buffalo, New York, grocery store a little over a week ago that left 10 dead. At least 213 mass shootings had been recorded this year as of Tuesday, the 144th day of the year, according to the Gun Violence Archive. CNN and the archive each define a mass shooting as one in which four or more people were injured or killed, not including the shooter.

Sympathy also poured in from across the globe, including Pope Francis, who pushed for stronger gun control. Leaders of France, Germany and Spain shared condolences, too, along with the President of war-torn Ukraine, who called it “terrible to have victims of shooters in peaceful time.”

How the shooting unfolded

The gunman shot his grandmother in the face before driving to Robb Elementary, a second through fourth grade school, to carry out the attack, Gov. Abbott said. Officials said the grandmother, who called 911, remains in a hospital — as do five victims from the school — but was upgraded from critical condition to serious on Wednesday.

Soon after that initial shooting, police got a 911 call about a vehicle that had crashed near the school and someone armed with a rifle heading inside, Olivarez told CNN in an interview Wednesday morning. The man was wearing a “tactical vest carrier with no ballistic panels,” Olivarez said.

Sgt. Erick Estrada of the Texas Department of Public Safety told CNN that when the shooter got to the school, he encountered a school resource officer, dropped a black bag with ammunition inside and entered the school.

The shooter barricaded himself inside adjoining classrooms and opened fire on the children and two teachers, Olivarez said, calling the act “complete evil.”

With the shooter barricaded inside, officers were at a disadvantage, he said.

“There was not sufficient manpower at that time, and their primary focus was to preserve any further loss of life,” he told CNN. “They started breaking windows around the school and trying to rescue, evacuate children and teachers while that was going on.”

A tactical team of local and federal officers arrived, forced its way into the classroom and shot the gunman dead, Olivarez said.

Community shattered by sudden tragedy

As the last day of school was drawing near, Robb Elementary students were celebrating with special themed dress days, including Tuesday’s theme of “Footloose and Fancy.” Students were encouraged to come dressed in nice outfits and show off their fun footwear, according to a post on the school’s Facebook page.

But by Tuesday afternoon, shaken students were being bused to the civic center-turned-reunification site. As the evening stretched on, some parents began to learn their young children had not survived.

“We see people coming out just terrorized. They’re crying one by one. They’re being told that their child has passed on,” state Sen. Roland Gutierrez told CNN on Tuesday night from the site.

As news of the shooting broke in Uvalde, Robb Elementary parents were told students were being taken to the SSGT Willie de Leon Civic Center, according to a post on the school district’s Facebook page. The site quickly became the epicenter for families looking for their children, and scenes of devastation began to play out as victims were identified.

Parents were asked for DNA swabs to confirm their relationships to their children and instructed to wait an hour for an answer, at least four families told CNN.

‘She just wanted to save everyone,’ father says

Seven of the children and two teachers killed have been identified publicly by their families.

Angel Garza, the father of 10-year-old Amerie Jo Garza, told CNN’s Anderson Cooper his daughter was trying to help her classmates.

“She was trying to do the right thing,” he said. “She was just trying to call the cops, that’s all.” He later added, “I just want people to know she died trying to save her classmates. She just wanted to save everyone.”

Garza, who works as a med aide, arrived at the scene to help victims and said he learned his daughter had died as he checked on a survivor who was covered in blood.

“She was hysterical saying they shot her best friend,” he said. “‘She’s not breathing, and she tried to call the cops.’ I asked her what’s her name and she said, she told me ‘Amerie, she said Amerie.'”

Teacher Irma Garcia was identified through a GoFundMe campaign. She was a wife and mother to four children, according to the campaign.

“Sweet, kind, loving. Fun with the greatest personality. A wonderful 4th grade teacher at Robb Elementary that was a victim in a Texas school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. She sacrificed herself protecting the kids in her classroom. She was a hero. She was loved by many and will truly be missed,” the campaign said.

Garcia was in her fifth year co-teaching with Eva Mireles, whose aunt confirmed her death.

Mireles had been an educator for 17 years and in her off time enjoyed running, hiking, biking and spending time with her family, according to her profile on the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District website.

Annabell Guadalupe Rodriguez, a 10-year-old third grader, was killed in the same classroom as her cousin, who was also died, relatives told CNN affiliate KHOU. The cousin’s name has not been released.

Ten-year-old Xavier Lopez’s mother confirmed her son was killed and recalled her fourth grader’s unforgettable smile. Xavier was days away from finishing elementary school and “couldn’t wait” to attend middle school, his mother told the Washington Post.

Martinez had been at the school earlier Tuesday to cheer on Xavier during the honor roll ceremony, at which he got a certificate. She took a picture of her boy and told him she was proud of him and loved him, she said. Then, she hugged her “mama’s boy” goodbye.

Jose Flores Jr., 10, was killed, as well, his father told CNN. The brother of two younger siblings, Jose loved baseball and video games and “was always full of energy,” Jose Flores Sr. said.

Relatives of Eliana “Ellie” Garcia, 9, told KHOU that she was one of the victims of the shooting. She loved the movie “Encanto,” cheerleading and basketball, her grandparents told the Los Angeles Times. They add that she dreamed of becoming a teacher.

And 10-year-old Uziyah Garcia was among the slain, his family told CNN. The fourth grader was “full of life” and “loved anything with wheels,” his uncle Mitch Renfro told CNN.

Uziyah’s grandfather remembered throwing the football with his grandson and teaching him pass patterns and plays, Manny Renfro recalled. He was the “sweetest little boy that I’ve ever known,” the grandfather said in an interview with CNN affiliate KSAT.

Robb Elementary includes second through fourth grades and had 535 students in the 2020-21 school year, state data shows. About 90% of students are Hispanic, according to the data. Uvalde County had a population of about 25,000 in the 2020 census.

What we know about the shooter

Ramos had stopped regularly attending school at Uvalde High School, one of his former classmates told CNN. “He barely came to school,” said the friend, who did not wish to be identified. Ramos had recently sent him a picture of an AR-15-style rifle, a backpack with rounds of ammunition and several magazines, the friend added.

“I was like, ‘Bro, why do you have this?’ and he was like, ‘Don’t worry about it,'” the friend said. “He proceeded to text me, ‘I look very different now. You wouldn’t recognize me.'”

The shooter also sent ominous Instagram messages to another user hours before the shooting, screenshots show.

Three days before the attack, an account linked to the shooter posted a photo of two rifles lying on a carpet in a story that tagged another Instagram account by name. The owner of the tagged account wrote in a story posted after the shooting that Ramos had tagged her and messaged her out of the blue.

The girl, who did not include her name on her account and has since made her account private, posted a series of screenshots of messages she said she exchanged with the shooter in the days before the massacre.

In one message that appeared to be sent the morning of the shooting, Ramos wrote “I’m about to” — but didn’t say what he would do. “I got a lil secret,” he wrote in another message. “I wanna tell u.”

In messages posted to her story before it went private, the girl said that she didn’t live in Texas and didn’t know Ramos.

Ramos had a history of fighting with others, according to a former friend and a video obtained by CNN that depicts Ramos repeatedly throwing punches. The former friend said the video, which he received more than a year ago, depicts Ramos fighting with someone else, which the former friend said was not out of the ordinary.

“He would always get in fights in school,” the former classmate said

CNN has reached out to the Uvalde school district for more information, but received no response.

Correction: An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated what the shooter was wearing based on information from authorities.

The-CNN-Wire
™ & © 2022 Cable News Network, Inc., a WarnerMedia Company. All rights reserved.

CNN’s Nicole Chavez reported from Uvalde, Texas, while Elizabeth Wolfe and Dakin Andone reported and wrote from Atlanta and Isabelle Chapman and Daniel A. Medina reported from New York. CNN’s Amanda Watts, David Williams, Sara Smart, Eric Levenson, Steve Almasy, Nikki Carvajal, Paradise Afshar, Curt Devine, Jeff Winter, Evan Perez, Andy Rose, Priscilla Alvarez, Jamiel Lynch, Jennifer Henderson and Joe Sutton contributed to this report.

CNN

Comments

331 Comments

  1. This is horrible and it demonstrates that this problem exists everywhere in our country, not just in Blue states as some of you have suggested in the past. We have a national problem and until we can have an honest discussion about the availability of guns, mental health issues etc. this problem will continue.

    1. Please, nothing is going to change. When a gun owner murdered a bunch of kindergarteners in Australia, they enacted more gun restrictions. When the same thing happened here, we loosened them. Republicans and conservatives consider these deaths the unavoidable price that must be paid in order to see to it that gun owners are never inconvenienced in any way whatsoever.

        1. He wasn’t a responsible owner. He was crazy.

          But the fact that Republicans defend the rights of crazy people to bear arms makes it really easy for Democrats to pass anti-gun legislation. People don’t like it when their kids are killed and tend to elect people who will do something about it.

          1. If having more guns made people safer, America would be the safest place on Earth.
            It’s not.
            If more spending on police made people safer, America would be the safest place on Earth.
            It’s not.
            If ‘thoughts and prayers’ made people safer, America would be the safest place on Earth.
            It’s not.

            America does not have more mental health problems than other countries.
            America does not have more rap music than other countries.
            America does not have more video games than other countries.
            America has more guns than all the other countries put together.
            And we lead the world in murders and mass shootings.

              1. If only folks posting here showed more respect for differing views and less personal attacks. Our new comment system might help, but it starts in the heart (and the head) – can we really work together to solve such tough issues or do we as usual stop at assuring ourselves we can blame our enemies for the tragedy?

              2. Offended people are the problem?! No, people who AREN’T offended by YET ANOTHER mass murder in a school/church/theater is THE PROBLEM!! Trust me when I say my lack of respect for you and the rest of MAGA is as deep and wide as the ocean. You will never ‘work together to solve tough issues’ as Barney says, you lay the blame on someone else until 72 hours has passed and we’ve moved onto the next crisis which you’ll blame someone else for again. Guns are the problem, MAGA is the problem, good people on both sides is the problem, my lack of respect for nazis is NOT the problem.

                1. Sometimes it’s smarter to keep your hatred to yourself . . . Before it comes out at the wrong time or in the wrong place. You never know when you’re going to need help from someone and because of your insults, they chose not to help. Personally, I will always help someone in need, regardless of political beliefs, but I also know plenty that won’t help someone that doesn’t agree with their political beliefs. Sad, but true! On a side note, anger is bad for ones health and mental stability. What do you want to bet, that it was the kids anger that caused him to go what he did? Maybe your anger is a cry for help from mental health . . .

            1. Don’t be so foolish…….
              He wasn’t in the elementary classroom, and the police I would assume wouldn’t allow anyone near the scene.

            2. Just like the previous mass shooting, there was an armed guard present, right there at the start. In both cases they were rendered ineffective due to the fact the gun owner was wearing body armor. It seems that one effective step to handle mass shootings would be to outlaw body armor ownership by the general public. There’s no legitimate reason for the public to own it, and there’s no 2nd amendment issues with banning it.

        2. Let me break it down for you. It’s called consent. I know it might be a new concept for “that guy over there” but you don’t get access to a woman’s body without consent. At anytime during sex or through her pregnancy, consent is still hers. It’s pretty basic. CONSENT. I know, it’s a difficult concept for some men. And that’s why you use a school shooting to pop your dirty evil mouthpiece off. You Don’t respect women or agree with the basic concept of CONSENT. I know you want to control the conditions for procreation with every cell in your tiny brain, but you can’t. So grow up or shut up. We are talking about a shooting, where some man decided to shoot children. You cannot stay on topic, because you are hung up on CONSENT. It’s gross and you’re obsessed with women’s ability to reproduce and under what conditions they give birth. You are truly evil.

          1. You might want to reflect on your name for the KTVZ comments section. Your comment is spewing hate, patronization, and gender discrimination towards men. “Love Wins” doesn’t seem to go along with your rhetoric. Killing of any child is horrifying and our hearts should go out to all the parents who lost a child yesterday or ever. This is no time for political theatrics and hate comments

            1. “He would be very rude towards the girls sometimes, and one of the cooks, threatening them by asking, ‘Do you know who I am?’ And he would also send inappropriate texts to the ladies,” said shooter. And yet you believe that toxic masculinity is not an underlying problem in this matter, as you spew hatred towards women who deserve every right over their bodies and mothers who express concerns about the lack of gun laws, specifically in Texas. Fact. Disrespect of women and implied ownership over their bodies as well as entitled young men who are angry about a number of misguided thoughts of women in general, leads to violence. But please continue with your diversion tactics towards women. And you wonder why we view it as hateful. No means no. Consent is love. Respecting women is love. Anger over your disrespect of our personal choices in an increasingly violent society is misguided at best. Love is Respect.

              https://www.thedailybeast.com/robb-elementary-school-gunman-salvador-ramos-bought-two-rifles-on-his-18th-birthday-texas-officials-say

        3. “Abortions kill more everyday than guns.”

          Are you counting a fetus as a “kill”? Because in that cause more life is lost to paper cuts per year than guns or abortions combined.

        4. I read this comment as well as the comments that followed. How does the injuring and killing of these innocent children and adult(s) have any relation to abortion? Other than to stir the proverbial pot of crap.

          Lives were lost, families will never be the same.

        5. He was a law-abiding, responsible gun owner right up until the time he started shooting. That’s the thing, so-called “responsible gun owners” want zero inconvenience on themselves, so that when the time comes when they feel that shooting people is justified (e.g., to fight “tyranny”), they’ll be all set. If they didn’t feel that way, they’d be OK with the type of regulations that gun-owners in other First World democracies operate under. First World democracies with far fewer gun deaths than we have, and where mass shootings like this are virtually unheard of.

      1. Australia saw their overall crime skyrocket with open warfare between gangs on their public beaches- Is that what you are promoting for America ? I’m pretty sure you’d become a victim of a violent crime within weeks of getting what you wish for.

        1. Barney Lerten says: May 24, 2022 at 8:42 PM…..
          If we cannot talk with each other in civil fashion, respect different points of view and just act like jerks while calling the other side jerks… we’re sunk.” … You three haters need to heed some advice.

              1. BGHW ~ I did not ask for you to pamper my soul. You just are seriously lacking in empathy & compassion and it’s clear when reading your comments. You enjoy snark. You thrive on it.

                1. I see that Barney is allowing you free rein to insult anyone you damn well wish- the fact you need his coddling speaks volumes to what he really must think of you- a weak punk who cannot defend himself. So be it- Barney the Moderator continues his biased moderation to the detriment of this site.

                2. Sorry Barney- your post holds no basis in fact when everyone can see three personal attacks at me- not my comments- that you allowed- to my one devastating argument ending response… Yup 3-1 and you want to coddle the bullies ! I feel for this young shooter- because this is the America he grew up in- where those tasked with making the place safe and secure- have failed miserably. Bang the drum slowly people- guns are not at issue here- our failed society is.

          1. Well Crikey mate- then yer friends should know these facts… “In 2005 the head of the New South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, Don Weatherburn,noted that the level of legal gun ownership in NSW increased in recent years, and that the 1996 legislation had had little to no effect on violence and later stated; “The fact is that the introduction of those laws did not result in any acceleration of the downward trend in gun homicide. It is always unpleasant to acknowledge facts that are inconsistent with your own point of view.”… “Another report measured the incidence of mass shooting and compared Australia to New Zealand, which has far less restrictions on gun control. The report concluded that the rate of mass shootings did not decline with the introduction of gun control measures in 1996.”… “A 2013 report suggested in a conservative estimate that there are a total of 250,000 long guns and 10,000 handguns on the illicit grey or black markets in Australia. Criminals will always find a way to arm themselves with illegal weapons purchased on the black market or stolen weapons from theft and robberies.” !

        2. Yes I think that’s exactly the message we’re sending and desire we want; That without guns all crime, even white collar crime, will cease to exist.

          What you posed is called a straw man argument.

          We don’t want our kids threatened with possible death every day they leave the house for school. But a reckless minority of gun owners and gun lobbiers have convinced enough Americans that the price we are willing to pay for our right to own a deadly weapon is paid for in the lives and futures of our own children.

          We like to live in fear apparently. The answer we’ve been given for this problem is the freedom to die prematurely in a gun fight between some crazy person and their demons.

      2. After the mosque shoot out in New Zealand they had a massive and massively expensive government run gun buy back and now they have way more gun violence than ever before.

        1. Where on earth do you get that nonsense from? The U.S. gun murder rate is 13X that of New Zealand, even though we have 2400X times more per-capita police officers than they do. We pay a very, very, very, heavy and awful price to keep those with their gun fetish happy.

          1. The US gun murder rate remains mainly confined to a single group of people in America- those involved in the illegal drug production- distribution- or purchase fields… and this has always been true… from prohibition to decriminalized drugs in Oregon- a state that has seen it’s homicide rates in Portland take that 1000x’s increase !

              1. Nope- didn’t say anything that you wrote- but let me add- this investigation has already determined two things in this boys life- 1) His Mom was an abusive “drug” user. 2) He was bullied constantly- much like what we see from the likes of you- the left- even our US media that encouraged bullying against our US President DJ Trump for four years- and you all wonder where the youth of America learned how to hate !

          2. Why doesn’t any other country attack Americans on American soil in all out war? Why didn’t Japan invade mainland America in ww2? It’s mostly because nearly every American household has a gun to fight back with.

            1. Nobody has invaded the US because it’s impossible. We have incredible geography as a country. Thousands of miles of coastline, surrounded by two massive oceans, we’re a fortress. It’s got nothing to do with our guns.

                1. Really. So why do cops all over the country go to home break ins every day?

            2. Damn ~ no. Not every household in the US has a gun. I grew up in a home ~ with zero guns. In part I believe it was because my father saw many deaths during World War II. To this day I still don’t possess one. Never will.

              Its doubtful I’m the exception to the rule.

              1. And I grew up in a Pacifist household, in a home that multiple firearms in it for hunting food and putting pets out of their misery when needed. I left that behind to join the Army and the Infantry. Every member of my immediate family has their own firearms and knows how to use them, including my kids and Grandkids. I buy each Grandkid their first rifle and teach them gun safety and how to shoot. I just bought my oldest Grandson a pistol for his 15th birthday, which will stay in my gun vault until he’s old enough to have it in his possession. (Exception will be when he comes to visit and go with me to the range.) And like you, I’m not the exception to the rule.

          3. New Zealand is also a small island and thus difficult for a criminal to escape. And they have closed borders. You are comparing apples to oranges

      3. You are as much responsible for these deaths with your support of gun free zones. Main has concealed carry without permit. Check out their crime rates. Gun free zones attract lunatics’ like this maniac. Say his name “Salvador Ramos”. Not a republican nor a conservative. More likely and illegal alien than anything. This has nothing to do with gun ownership. Don’t be a fool. I will never give up my right to protect myself and my family. This and other incidents like it prove my need for my CCL. This is not proof of gun violence, this is proof of violent people. If not the use of a gun, it would be something else. People with guns protect more people than people kill people with guns. Doof

        1. “Say his name “Salvador Ramos”. Not a republican nor a conservative. ”

          While we dont know his political motivations as of yet, *if he is latino, he is statistically more likely to be conservative (32%) than liberal (28%) *Source Pew Research Group. Also assuming someone is an illegal alien based on name alone is blatant racism. Where you at, Barney? Is this acceptable now?

            1. You deleted factual information because you didn’t like it and it offends the the left, full stop. Then you’re up there slinging peace and come togetherness while denying the media has any part of the division

                1. Barney, that is awesome. I have decided that my moderation is correct. Hey someone has to do it! Good to see you posting again.

              1. He deletes fact filled posts- yet allows loudmouth haters like Frog Eye an open mic to hurl insults- then wonders why this site has become such a poo party. It’s on him and his personal bias against people who will defend themselves- which is why I’m more sympathetic to the young 18 year old who had finally had enough than most. Our nation is full of bullies- loudmouths- and enablers… it’s on the US that can send billions to the Ukraine to help defend themselves- yet won’t offer a dime of help to those who are constantly ridiculed- harassed- and villified right here in the good ol USA. shameful what this nation has become.

                1. This country rewards bullies, loudmouths, enablers, and portrays and celebrates violence in most movies, video games, and some music. Yet people claim none of that has anything to do with the violence problem. Total disconnect from reality.

        2. Fedup ~ nothing has been mentioned about him being an illegal alien. Assumptions are related to ignorance.

          And as I’ve said before, people are dead. Children loved ones etc.

          Why is the white racist male different than the illegal alien with brown skin?

          And if he is illegal ~ tell me how he purchased the guns two weeks ago.

        3. I actually think the CCL is a good program. CCL holders have a good track record; my wife took the training course for it. I think all gun owners should be required to get one before purchase; concealed carry or not. When you purchase a gun from a dealer, you’re totally responsible for it until you report it sold or transferred. Your kid’s friend comes over and finds it unsecured and shoots himself? You go to jail. You sell it under the table and it eventually ends up being used in a crime? You go to jail. That’s just common sense and responsible ownership; no different than owning a car.

        4. You’re right, “Gun Free Zones” DO NOT work! That’s a fact, yet many people refuse to admit it. They never worked in the beginning and they still don’t work. This is just another in a long list of shootings in “Gun Free Zones” and yet there are people that swear by them. Look to the MSM and FBI statistics for the science. We also know that SCOTUS has ruled that police are not responsible for our protection . . . So who is?

      4. “Republicans and conservatives consider these deaths the unavoidable price that must be paid in order to see to it that gun owners are never inconvenienced in any way whatsoever.”

        Bingo. Children are the sacrifices they make to their sick gun cult. Stop abortions because fetuses are sacred, but dont touch them guns, they just kill actual children!

      1. did the parents tell you they didn’t want the prayers? That’s what I thought! You know you lose in the end, and there is no undoing that!

    1. By ‘prayers’, you mean ‘nothing real’. No change, no closure, no safety, no retribution. We will learn the killer’s name, his background, his social media posts/tweets, we’ll hear about his problems which sound exactly like all of our problems, and then we’ll hear FOX opine about mental health, rap music, and video games. But it will be too soon to talk about real change, because we can’t possibly politicize their deaths and talk about common sense gun reforms that 90% of Americans agree with, because it’s too soon. We need to wait for that. For later. Because it’s too soon. You’re in a cult, by the way. Seek help.

      1. We already know his name his background and everything else you stated… we also know that he was a mental nut job. Now ask Barney why its being limited at best

  2. Beautiful kids on a spring day in the Texas Hill Country . . . Have you noticed we have reached the point where (Buffalo, Clackamas Town Center, Las Vegas, e.g.) individuals are now experiencing their second in person mass shootings?

  3. So…. Republicans all over the country are working hard to take away a woman’s right to choose because they want to save those babies. Republicans don’t actually seem to care about what happens to those babies afterwards. Let’s face it they don’t really care about abortion they care about control. Can’t take their guns because then they wouldn’t have control.

    1. You should retract your comment when you find out this guy was a racist minority who is an illegal alien. Maybe that will make you think twice than to support democrat policies…..probably not.

      1. – he was 18 years old, a kid … just like the last mass shooter who was groomed to believe in the cult of “gun rights” – you might be right though – if he wasn’t white the cops would surly gun him down – is that what you are trying to say?

        1. The “cops” and their guns are what stopped this slaughter- think about that- if only a single armed and trained citizen had been on site. Our US military vets have been begging to act as security- for free at schools across America- its the anti-gunners that have shouted down their offer… so those will just have to live with these types of consequences.

          1. MEN need to get their acts together. Many are good in Oregon. We are blessed that way, but some of ya’ll are just straight up ridiculous. Wallowing in your pig pen comments. The stench is rotten.

            1. I understand your frustration and need to lash out with personal attacks against those you can’t debate- but try it anyway- just what part of my post is “ridiculous” ? And be prepared to back up your position with something more than “pig pen stench”… you seem to be losing yer mind here at the Z forum- where many of us are just more fact based than what yer used to with the liberal bleeding heart media. You see Biden’s presser yesterday- a national embarrassment ! The guy was barely audible- shaking- weak and beaten… he’s gonna lead this nation outta this kind of heartbreak- President Trump could- he’s a strong leader with strong opinions- not some failed wishy washy politician !

          2. They engaged him before he entered the school. Yet he still entered and murdered eighteen children and an adult. Doesn’t sound to me like they were very effective at “stopping” anything.

        2. The cult of gun rights comes from the same place as your freedom of speech. It wouldn’t have mattered if the guy was grey green red or yellow he would be gunned down to stop the threat. That’s what I am saying.

          1. ” It wouldn’t have mattered if the guy was grey green red or yellow he would be gunned down to stop the threat. ”

            History says otherwise.

        3. You are so far gone you can’t even put 2 + 2 together. I’m saying if he was an illegal immigrant or his parents were, this would never have happened if they had been prevented from illegally crossing the border. Does that spell it clear enough for you?!?

      2. What? I mean, seriously? It’s called patriarchy. These shootings have ONE COMMON DENOMINATOR. THE VAST MAJORITY ARE MEN, KILLING PEOPLE. MEN. MEN. ENTITLED MEN. Just saying. DISTURBED power hungry MEN created this world where the rest of us exist. MEN are going to be judged harsher than everyone else. Mark my word. You are so far off in your ethnocentric narcissism, you refuse to see the actual problem. Clean up your mess.

        1. Yes we all know there biological differences between men and women that would cause this. ( unless you happen to be an extremist liberal that doesn’t believe in science.)

          1. Hey jxmoocher, are you still taking unemployment, or did that finally, finally run out. How about the rest of the government programs you depend on for your family? Have you given that all up yet? Or are you still a hypocrite?

          2. I’m guessing you believe in science except for the science behind vaccines which destroys your fragile little world view. Pathetic.

      3. He was a legal US citizen, but I guess you can’t read the article, only hope like a psycho for some delusional fantasy of yours to be true so you can feel justified. Unfortunately it seems like no amount of being HORRIBLY WRONG will ever make you realize you are the Dunningest of all Krugers. Imbecile.

    1. wow! Wicked pro life! so to want life makes you wicked? haven’t heard that one, but not surprised when there is no moral compass at all from the left, zero!

      1. Earlier this year Texas got rid of any common-sense gun laws, and now allow conceal carry without a background check or any training regardless of who you are or what you’ve done. And yet, here we are. But please go on and tell us about how it’s the liberals with no moral compass. But hey, they banned some books! and no Texas children will ever learn about America’s history of slavery or about gay people, so I guess your moral compass is pointing straight north, eh? republicans are a cult, and you’ve all lost even the slightest grip on what’s actually important.

      2. If you want to force your will on others, them focus on forcing vasectomies. Easily reversing when the man has demonstrated he wants and is ready for procreation. Problem solved. Maybe we can all vote on that too. Your body isn’t your body. How does that feel, Steve? Sound good 👍

        1. Let’s be fair and equal about it . . . Force vasectomies on men and tubal ligation on women . . . Sound good LoveWins? 👍 Dang, you just solved the abortion issue! BTW, I’m done and you’re up! 🤦‍♀️

            1. These people care more about their guns than your children’s right to go to school without being murdered. But you already knew that. Still, it’s worth mentioning.

              1. Do you understand that the United States Supreme Court HAS ALREADY DECIDED MULTIPLE TIMES the police have no duty to protect you, and most recently in the PARKLAND SCHOOL SHOOTING. Go glow worm and virtue signal elsewhere

            2. The word “inalienable” does not appear in the Second Amendment. Besides, women have a constitutional right to their own bodies and you dont seem to mind forcing them to give that up.

              1. Well 63 million murdered in the name of your abortion says it all. What about those kids futures? Does snuffing the life out of a defenseless baby make you feel superior? If so, in what way? You are worried about a few well what about the 63 million?

            1. Then why does Article I, Section 8, paragraph 1 give Congress the power to “make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces”? The militia was part of the land forces. So why in one paragraph would Regulation mean rules and two later mean trained? And by the way with out rules and regulations all you have is a mob.

              1. My kind hasn’t been shooting up Chicago every weekend… YOURS has. My kind didn’t tear the progressive cities all to hell… YOURS did. YOU PEOPLE are the mob

                That said, you don’t understand the term “Inalienable” at all, do you? Nor so you understand why the first ten are exactly that. This government didn’t “grant” me those rights, government cannot take them away, nor change them

                1. Government grants all rights. Where do you think your “rights” come from? Without laws and society, you have nothing.

          1. “Is that a threat?” Why do you clowns ALWAYS run with card? Actually, I’m not. The guy was a mental fruitcake…. the progressive poster child. You people want to do NOTHING about mental illness. Kate closed the mental wards… not my kind

            1. Are you now claiming that KATE BROWN is at fault for this shooting? That’s where you’re at now?

              THIS is conservatism. You own all of this and your inability to critically think makes my children have to live in fear and danger.

              1. You’re not very quick, are you? I blamed Kate brown for shutting down the mental institutions, and I claimed this guy was a mental whack job

                My rights don’t end where your kids fears begin. Remember that

                1. JohnB ~ Actually if you know your history, it was Ronald Reagan who reduced access to mental health care. Yup ~That’s the one.

                2. Gee Froggy- why didn’t Obama address that forty year old Reagan reduction- i mean along with Joey Biden- he had eight full years to work hopey changey miracles… but he didn’t ! So what’s his level of accountability ?

    1. I’m case you need to overthrow the government? How cute. You could prepare your entire arsenal and see how quickly our military would infringe on you with a predator drone.

      1. Exactly that reason. It’s hilarious that your kind think the 2A is about deer hunting with a musket. Thomas Jefferson said that the Tree of Liberty must be watered with both the blood of patriots and tyrants, for it is its manure. Your head would spin plumb off when you hear the arguments presently before the court that you’re losing badly on. But local news and all ya know…..

            1. I’m here to tell you if you have a problem with me, then YOU take it up with me. I won’t tolerate being harrased by you or anyone else.

          1. That’s your fault. The media is directly responsible for a huge part in the division this country has. You continually omit things that most of these people are totally in the dark about.

              1. Where’s the racism? Was it “your kind”? Because I may be wrong, especially in these times where up is down and nobody can define what a woman is, but I’m pretty sure that a democrat isn’t a race.

                1. When someone claims media wouldn’t be covering this tragedy if the gunman was another race, that is a) an obvious lie and b) racist.

              2. So now you’re calling my comments that you deleted “racist and troll” in front of the room… why? So they’ll think I’m making racist troll statements, which is total crap. You are obviously hiding the truth…. just like you did with Russia. You allowed all these people to believe a totally false narrative and you’re doing it now

            1. No, it’s your fault for allowing yourself to be divided–which you absolutely have done.

              This is a free country and the “media” (remember Fox News is the most popular media outlet in the US) can print whatever biased, divisive nonsense they want. I know there have been a lot of right wing attacks on the First Amendment recently, but it is still the law of the land, and you should defend it, not try to weaken it.

              It’s YOUR JOB to do the right thing for America in spite of whatever your political party or the media says.

            1. It’s like I have said many times – I don’t hate the hater, I hate the HATE. And there are concrete, workable efforts (Braver Angels, Bridge Alliance, many more) to depolarize this divided country that give me hope for the future.

              1. May I present you with irony and contradiction for a moment so that you may be aware? Barney Lerten says May 24, 2022 at 11:02 PM “People who call folks they disagree with “your kind” and demonize them are the real issue.” contrasted with; Barney Lerten says: May 25, 2022 at 3:07 PM “I don’t hate the hater, I hate the HATE.” So “People” “are the real issue.” But you “don’t hate hater?

              2. Was trying to help, and was trying to make the world a better place by pointing out something that you may not have been aware of. Not trying to condemn you, or elevate myself. If you label the people that are classifying and blaming other “people” as “the real issue” like you said, then you are doing the same thing to them, and that makes you the same as the rest of us and not on a superior pedestal. That was all I was saying.

          2. “People who call folks they disagree with “your kind” and demonize them are the real issue.”… But people who show up here to engage in non-stop personal attacks without discussing the topic… aren’t an issue ? Those die hard left wing bullies and loudmouths this site attracts- they are not the real issue ?? Your constant interference to enable and protect their ugly comments… is not the real issue ??? Time for a change Barn- bring on your new system and you will see how quickly your coddled and protected get downvoted into the pits… Can’t wait !

        1. My kind? As in American? Yeah, I know that’s what it was intended for in the 1700s. It’s adorable that you think you’d stand a change against the greatest military force in the history of the world. The founding fathers expected the constitution to be amended as times change.

          1. Exactly!!! You are completely spot on. Do you see We The People amending the Constitution? No. Do you see a Convention of States being called? No. Those are the ONLY two ways to amend it. Emotion don’t count

            1. I see We the People (the majority) asking for change (constitution amendment) and the people who can initiate that change doing nothing.
              You really think you stand a chance against our military? Which well regulated militia do you belong to?

              1. Remember, you are the one that voted them into office . . . If not, they were elected by the majority and the majority disagrees with what you want.

                1. Not sure what your point is. The majority of Americans want mass shootings to stop. The people who can effect change aren’t doing it.

          2. And yet that “greatest military force in the world” failed in the end, when it came to Iraq and Afghanistan. Simple goat and sheep herders destroyed or crippled armored vehicles, tanks, and captured advanced weaponry . . . not to forget proving our tactics were ineffective. Then again, on paper, it says that our Army can not be used within the borders of our country for other than peaceful purposes. Even with the recent politicization of our military, you’re going to have a tough time finding members that will violate the Constitution.

            1. There’s no comparison between Taliban and 2a supporters who fantasize about overthrowing our government. Taliban has been committed for years and are willing to fight forever, 2a folks are struggling to make it through a pandemic. They don’t have the fortitude to do what the Taliban have done.
              You’re right though, you’d be hard pressed to find people in our military that would ever violate the constitution. Including taking up arms against US citizens. So, 2a isn’t relevant anymore.

              1. Try to remove the 2nd Amendment through un-Constitutional means and you’re in for a big surprise. It won’t be just the 2A supporters you’ll be dealing with or fighting.

                1. I didn’t say anything about removing 2a through unconstitutional means? Your veiled threat really falls flat in a comment section.

      2. If there’s one lesson we learned from the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, it’s that a relatively small band of poorly-armed irregulars can hold a superpower at bay for years, and even defeat them. “Asymmetric warfare”, it’s called.

        Ha ha, JK–we *didn’t* learn that lesson and we went into Afghanistan and Iraq ourselves, anyway.

        But it’s still true. An American resistance would blend into the populace. (Remember those “human shields” we used to complain about the Taliban using? Classic guerilla tactic.) You couldn’t just bomb everyone from a Predator.

        The bigger practical danger here is that *some* people with the guns will demand an end to the democratic process in the US, just like is happening in Afghanistan now. They would work with a sympathetic government to repeal most of the Bill of Rights (just the parts that only criminals use, of course), presidential term limits (so their leader won’t be kicked out), and voter rights laws (so their leader can’t be kicked out), and impose that on the country.

        It’s tough to vote if you have a Hispanic name and Fed Up Local is outside the polling place with a gun assuming everyone with a Hispanic name is not an American.

        1. The same people who were too delicate to wear a mask at the grocery store or get a shot are going to hold out and resist for years if needed? Let alone have any semblance of a cohesive plan or ideas about what the country would look like if successful.

    1. Kind of like abortion huh? 63 million murdered in 50 years and crickets but, it’s the guns fault. When we can murder 63 million babies without a second thought that creates alot more unfeeling mentally ill people.

      1. The conservatives have no more justification to control a woman’s right to choose than the liberals have to control a citizen’s right to bear arms. Both sides are trying to impose government control on what is an individual right.

        1. Yer only half right there Bucko. The right usnt “trying” if the SCOTUS decision is true, they are doing. It’s not an equivalency.

        2. But she ALREADY has the right to choose as in DO NOT GET PREGNANT. You don’t want a baby ruining your life? Then practice some responsibility and don’t get pregnant, I know pretty simple right? Or is it easier for her to just have the baby murdered so it doesn’t mess with her career? Selfish unfeeling half braindead people is what they are.

        3. Actually Conservatives are saying that abortion should be decided at the state level and not the Federal level or courts. If SCOTUS votes to over turn the current abortion laws, abortion will still be legal at the state level, unless individual states laws don’t permit it. As it currently stands, abortion will still be legal in Oregon.

  4. Is there really no improvement that can be made? Not one? Not even a small one? Zero changes? None? As a society, we’ve done some amazing things. We’ve made technology that can do almost anything. AI and algorithms. We’ve been to space. Self-driving cars. We’re smart. But on this topic, we’re exceedingly dumb. And blind. And unwilling to even TRY anything different. Where is the bottom? What depth do we need to plumb to be willing to try to improve this situation? Notice that I’m not saying “take guns away” because if we are smart enough to do all of those other things, then surely we’re smart enough to figure out a way to improve this and compromise on any type of improvement. BUT WE NEED TO TRY.

    1. Obviously you can turn the school into a compound with metal detectors and enforcement personnel at every entrance watching the school, but society has refuted doing this sort of protection for schools to prevent this sort of thing.

    2. Of course we could. No other Western democracy experiences this. Canada has more per-capita guns than we do. Switzerland has lots of guns, too. But we’re the only country that experiences this type of carnage. Because we’re the only country where gun owners demand no controls nor regulations nor procedures whatsoever, because avoiding any inconvenience to themselves, in their mind, is far, far, more important than the lives of little kids, or the lives of anyone else. They’re sick people.

    3. There are a number of things that can be done . . . First, if you are caught possessing a firearm while legally not permitted to own, automatic FULL 10 year sentence, without possibility of parole. Second, if you are admitted for a mental evaluation, you are added to the “No firearm” list. Third, if you use a firearm in the commission of a crime, automatic minimum sentence of 15 years without possibility of parole. Forth, if you kill someone with a firearm during the commission of a crime, automatic minimum of life, without parole. Fifth, all these are regardless of age. And Sixth, if you are a mandatory reporter and fail to report someone that has questionable mental health IMMEDIATELY to the appropriate authorities, you lose your license and are sentenced to a minimum of one year. It also wouldn’t hurt to re-open mental health facilities for permanent mental health patients.

      1. Yet you are fixated on making abortions illegal. You make it illegal, and suddenly everyone can still get one. So, what’s the point?

      1. Epstein was a serial child molester who actually did kill himself when he realized his life would never be the same. Also, he was a close personal friend of Trump.

    1. Make all the gun laws you want…bad or mentally ill people are going to do bad things. Whether it be guns , bombs, or driving a semi through a crowd of people.. obviously people intent on doing bad things do not care about LAW.

        1. Blue Danube, I will connect the dots or line of reasoning for you, laws are meaningless if they are not followed or enforced. They are an illusion of control. Only the people that are already law abiding and responsible try to follow them. Laws do not work for the lawless. Ever heard of the term outlaw? Actually if they make millions of law abiding people into criminals by passing a law, what incentive do those law abiding people have to participate in trying to be lawful anymore. Yep, make millions of people into outlaws. That should be interesting.

    2. Won’t work for us reloaders . . . On top of that, the only way to make our schools safe, would be to use Israel’s standard procedures for protecting schools and you Liberals will never agree to that (even though it’s a proven fact). “Gun Free Zones” have never prevented a firearm attack or school massacre.

      1. Not once, and the evidence shows that the “gun-free” part is EXACTLY why these monsters go to them to carry out their carnage. The number 1 rule to gunfighting is don’t go where you need a gun. That is taught in training sessions all over the country and is near biblical. That said, these gun-free zones are exactly where a person needs defensive tactics and weapons. They are also a place where I will not go… because of Rule #1. I’m not going to abide by the law and risk my life, I’ll stay away and save it

          1. Shush! We don’t need the fire department or insurance companies knowing that! When I was on active duty, the Post Fire Chief had a fit when he saw what was in the BOQ storage area. He went to the Post Commander and threatened to put up “ASP Supply” point signs outside the BOQ. We were forced to remove 3/4’s of our powder, primers, and loaded ammo, from the BOQ to the Post ASP. Fire Chief still wasn’t happy . . .

  5. Well as a society that doesn’t care enough about babies to let them live what would you expect to happen. It has absolutely nothing to do with guns period! We have an unfeeling uncaring society that murders its own young. I wonder what that really does to society coupled with the garbage Hollywood and the music industry puts out.

    1. Men have been shooting kids at increasing rates, while refusing to accept responsibility for the violence. Instead, you point to women because you disagree with consent during sex, during pregnancy, and even denying her consent in making the laws that govern her body. Men are largely responsible for these gun laws (and lack thereof) and these alarming rates of violence against children, but you deflect. Not even man enough to recognize your privilege in ignoring or perpetuating violence.

      1. Men AND Women are no longer held responsible for their actions! PERIOD!!! In today’s sad event, the firearm will bare the brunt of attacks. Same goes for abortion . . . it’s all about a woman’s choice, regardless of the baby (fetus) having a heartbeat or survivable outside of the womb. The biggest difference will soon be, that it will be up to the individual states as to whether abortion is legal or not, while events like today should remain illegal under Federal law. (We already have states de-criminalizing some federal crimes. (Oregon sound familiar?)

          1. Really? In most states, if you kill a pregnant woman, you’re charged with murder of both her and the child she is/was carrying. Let me clarify that a bit for you . . . You will be charged with killing the child she is/was carrying, not the fetus she is/was carrying.

            1. That is because she consents to the pregnancy. When it’s in her body and she wants it. Clear enough? It’s pretty simple. Consent. I know it’s hard to believe that she has a choice, the entire time. I know you want things black or white, but it isn’t. It’s not your choice. Tough pill to swallow. But what you can do is get a vasectomy and encourage any man who is not ready to have a child or impregnate a women to do the same. Men must accept that women have autonomy over their bodies, during sex and beyond. You control you. I know going back 50 years seems good for those inspired to control the population, but it’s a little more complicated than that. We don’t live in China. We have rights over our bodies. If you don’t like that, there are so many options for you to decide for yourself. There’s being gay. Vasectomy. Moving. You do you.

      1. Would you be as fast to jump on a bandwagon if he blew the school up instead? (The Bath School Massacre.) How about if he used ricin instead? Last time I checked, having explosives or ricin in possession was illegal and that DIDN’T/DOESN’T include the ingredients to make either. What if he loaded his car with full cans of gas and crashed that into the school? Would you be all out to ban gasoline or cars? The point I’m trying to make, is would you still have your panties in a bunch if he did it another way?

          1. Castor beans are all you need to make ricin. It is not difficult. Stopping evil is what is difficult. It is illegal to murder. Still happens no matter how many laws you put in place. I own not one gun. I still understand some people’s desire to have a gun when you have evil people who will do whatever they think they can get away with. Be careful that your push to win an argument doesn’t end up empowering more evil. My neighbor has a CCL because he worked in the jail system here in Bend and he saw firsthand the evil in some people, even here in Bend. So what are you going to do if one of those evil ones decides to come into your home and do whatever they want with you and yours? Debate them?

        1. The point I’m trying to make is Denny claims this shooting “has absolutely nothing to do with guns period”. It’s another mass shooting. The shooter used…..wait for it…a gun. But this has absolutely nothing to do with guns? 👉 pew pew.

      2. He used a tool dipstick. Gun had no choice in the matter. Just like when they murder babies in their womb. Think how many great minds have been lost because women are greedy and selfish.

  6. Other countries have mental illness. Other countries have disaffected minorities. Yet other countries don’t have mass shootings. Guess what else other countries DON’T have. Go ahead. Guess. Starts with a “G”.

      1. You mean cartel shootings? Who buys all their drugs? Gun laws don’t work if you don’t consider Japan, UK, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, Romania, Denmark, Norway, Australia, Argentina, Netherlands, South Africa, Greece, Chile, France, Spain, Sweden, Singapore, Portugal…

        1. Wow, looks like you picked the wrong list…

          “Oslo and Utøya attacks of 2011, also called July 22 attacks, terrorist attacks on Oslo and the island of Utøya in Norway on July 22, 2011, in which 77 people were killed—the deadliest incident on Norwegian soil since World War II….”

          1. No, not really. You can point out ONE terrorist attack in ONE of countries named? We’ve already lost more elementary aged children this year than that one attack. Just more proof gun control laws work!

              1. So, singular terrorist attacks and not repeated mass shootings like we have in our country. We can’t do anything about guns cause people will find other ways to harm people?

  7. Only weaklings need gun’s… As the comments prove,the tired Republican narrative resonates with the weakest and most mentally fragile among us

    1. Come back and talk when you know the reason the framers of our country included it in the constitution. The reason still holds true even today.

      1. Our “framers” included it as a part of being in a local militia that was well regulated. the SCOTUS are the ones that later made it apply to everyone.

        1. That’s completely false. There’s no mention whatsoever of having to be part of a local militia. If you’re going to be quoting them, quote them right

          “I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials.”

          George Mason

      2. It was partly so that the people of Virginia could oversee and enforce their system of minority tyranny upon an African majority without being dependent on a proposed federal government.

    2. I thought Biden was a Democrat? I guess the mental fragile comment aligned with our current president, you have seen him at press conferences right???

  8. Again, it’s not the gun’s fault. It’s the maniac wielding it. That said, be interesting to find out if various earning signs were missed and if Red Flag laws would’ve helped.

  9. Looks all the hypocrites here posing as some saviors. Lets see:

    “In 2020 there were 11,654 fatalities in
    motor vehicle traffic crashes in which at
    least one driver was alcohol-impaired.
    This totaled 30 percent of all traffic fatalities in the United States for the year.”

    “Of the 1,093 traffic fatalities in 2020
    among children 14 and younger, 21 percent (229) occurred in alcohol-impaired driving crashes.”

    Source: https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving

    When do the hypocrites here demand banning alcohol and drugs?

    1. What we have done is pass laws and taken other actions that have reduced the number. That is what needs to be done with shootings. We most likely never prevent all shootings but if the number of shooting and fatalities can be reduced that needs to be done.

    2. In 2020 there were 45,222 fatalities from gun-related injuries. So maybe we should ban alcohol, drugs, AND guns…

      …just sayin’…

  10. Unfortunately, nothing will ever happen. We will continue to have more mass shootings because the adults in this country act like petulant children and cannot have a conversation. We are too divided on every issue, we are labeled as “liberal or conservative” “democrat or republican”, we cannot come together as a whole and find a solution, it’s just the same status quo. Very disappointing. I have lost all faith of anything drastic changing.

    1. I have mentioned here many times the efforts some are making through groups such as Braver Angels and the Bridge Alliance to depolarize this toxically divided country. It may be our only hope. People who wash their hands and give up are just as dangerous as those who can’t see past their side being right and the other side being evil. That may well destroy America, along with those who only follow such stories to determine how to blame the other side for such tragedies, rather than actually look for achievable solutions.

      1. There’s no middle ground in some cases. A solution can sometimes only fall within one ideological viewpoint or the other. Obviously, this isn’t the case with everything, but with some things yes. And depending on which way you see the solution, will automatically label you as liberal or conservative.

        1. If we cannot talk with each other in civil fashion, respect different points of view and just act like jerks while calling the other side jerks… we’re sunk.
          We have to try for compromise and achievable solutions. No one side is all holy or evil. To believe that is the most dangerous thing of all.

          1. There are not very fine people on both sides. The republican party is completely broken. These people attacked the Nation’s Capital. They drive around with confederate flags on their truck, you know what I’m talking about, you see them every day. Trump couldn’t understand why they couldn’t just go out and shoot peaceful protesters in the legs. We. Are. Already. Sunk. Stop trying to normalize these people, they are the clear and present danger to American Democracy.

            1. I’m not normalizing extremists on the other side. I’m saying Americans in the middle are tired of the extremes on both sides trying to destroy America on behalf of “their side” and tearing the country apart in the process.

              1. So what is the Z21 position on “sides” ? We all witnessed nothing but 98% negative coverage of the DJ Trump presidency- you personally go out of your way to passively aggressively promote Demokrat talking points and defend Joey Biden- Their is obviously a “side” in play here- therefore- are you (and the station) part of this tearing process you profess to criticize ? If you only thought more about your actions during the previous administration- you might have more “understanding” ears lent your way- but in light of how you behaved for the past six years- you simply come off as hypocritical and completely out of touch with… “We” Americans in the middle !

              2. Barney, Here is an alternate narrative. That rich elite leftists are pushing for a global authoritarian order similar to a feudal system where they rule supreme and the rest of us are surfs. They are using the progressive far left as a vehicle for power to advance that agenda. And implementing it using the WEF and UN SDG’s as well as DEI and ESG, racism, and especially activist and nonprofits they are funding. The left including the middle is largely supporting that agenda because they want in on the global power structure being created so they don’t have to follow the rules. The right has been villified because their supposed individual rights position is a hindrance to the left agenda. So the right in theory has moved farther right in contrast to the left as a counter position. Or maybe as the left gets more extreme even the middle left looks like a conservative. Food for thought anyway.

                1. Sorry, I’ve had dinner. You have every right to your opinion and we sure appreciate the civil recitation of it. But to me, this is just a variation on the conspiracy theories that I don’t see in how the people I know look at the world or do their business. It’s a way to paint the “other side” as evil and full of skullduggery. I don’t buy it, and most folks I know don’t. Not because they are “part of a narrative” to rule supreme, but because it’s just… outlandish.

                2. Not my opinion, and I don’t actually know what the real story is or care. But that is just a theory which one could argue for by listing citations of institutions stating as much.

          2. Grab your swim fins, the media is directly responsible for a HUGE part of this. When people ask time and time again for various things and they get blown off or labeled by the media… it’s over with. When things like Russia Russia Russia has been shown to be a total Clinton set- up and the media refuses to tell people they were wrong…the same people that they told was truth. You yourself have said multiple times people trust you and depend on what you guys do. That means whatever you print… they’ll take a the truth cuz media would never misconstrue or hide anything… and if you’re not reporting all of the truth……

            1. You are right- the media refuses to admit their level of accountability in todays divided nation- it all started with daily attacks on President Trump- and it was relentless. The daily barrages of bullying shown nationwide caused many of us to vent our concerns- only to be shouted down- censored- deleted ! This current world of hate and anger is a direct result of what’s been pumped into American homes for six years now- and i don’t see anyone in the media willing to offer up a peace pipe !

                1. We profit – not a dirty word, right? – with trustworthy factual and objective to the greatest degree possible news. And yes, conflicts are news. Tragedies are news. We love to do “good news” stories when they present themselves, but sadly, much of the world’s news is about problems, issues and yes, tragedies.

                2. Like I said- I don’t see anyone willing to offer up a peace pipe !

          3. I made the comment earlier that one way to make our schools safer, was/is to use Israel’s method of securing them. Watch how well that goes over . . . We can always talk about how to fix these problems, but there will always be the side that refuses to discuss or accept possible solutions. Then again, we could always discuss how effective “No Gun Zones” have been in our schools . . . never mind the continuous unmitigated failures of that solution. There are still people that swear by those laws that are proven to not work.

  11. 19 souls of American children offered up in prayer to The Altar of NRA in the name of the GOP and Republicans everywhere. God Bless the 2nd Amendment.

      1. Local man claims exaggeration; still willing to let kids die so he can own a gun he never use as it was intended. Until jxblasr runs out like Payton did in furtherance of his beliefs.

  12. God will bless those children, they are innocent, but those that mock God, probably don’t make out to well on God blessing them, just like the millions of babies being killed, and he will bless them but not those who murdered the babies!

  13. Well it appears that z21 is prohibiting a few certain facts from being presented….. because somebody will be offended. Well Barney… you don’t think it’s offensive to people when you restrict factual information just because you don’t want to hear it not do you want others to hear it? What’s your problem? You only print the facts you’re told to? Cuz you’re definitely censoring facts when you say you don’t

    1. I have no clue what post you’re talking about, but you’ve said plenty here, disproving your attack as another false claim. If you think I agree with so much of what’s said here and delete what I disagree with, you don’t read the comments. Some are very tough calls NOT because of what is said but because of the toxic way they are said – full of nasty hate and blame. From ANY viewpoint. That’s the sad thing.

  14. There are many things that are ignored when something terrible like this incident happens.
    1. More often than not, the killer has made overt threats that were ignored.
    2. Simple procedures/practices at school, in this example could have stopped or deterred it from happening. A single point of entry and an armed officer for example.
    3. In most cases these incidents occur in areas with stringent gun laws/regulations and in several cases the perpetrator makes it clear they purposefully chose the site because they were counting on no one being a threat to them.

    There are hundreds of millions of guns in this country. That is not going to change no matter what “common sense” gun laws are passed.
    There are many gun laws/regulations already on the books all across the country. Murder is against the law everywhere in this country.
    If guns were the problem, we’d all be dead. They literally outnumber us in this country.
    Can we all stop the rhetoric and realize that the problem is the slow rot of our society?
    Mental health declining as a whole with less access to care than ever.
    Personal responsibility has been completely thrown out the window. It’s always someone else’s fault.
    Kids are no longer taught how to lose or deal with failure/difficulty in life. Zero coping skills.
    A total lack of accountability or consequences when it comes to crime, behavior, and relationships.
    These horrible incidents need to stop, but until we stop with the politics and really look at the issues that could actually deter/prevent them, they never will.

  15. It’s true that emotions run high on these topics. It’s hard to conceive of people using a comment section of a national tragedy, a reoccurring tragedy involving a shooter and children to then propetuate anti-abortion propaganda which disproportionately affects one part of the population’s personal health choices. It’s surprising to learn that some people’s religious interpretations override other people’s religious interpretation. My religion doesn’t forbid abortion. We have freedom of religion. Until a life is viable on its own, it’s dependent on the mother’s beliefs. You cannot legislate religion. At some point you have to trust that is between them and God. Why is this even a topic on this comment section, which should really be filled with how people can help these families? Maybe gun law differences of opinions, but it’s not related to abortion in any way. It’s simply not the same. Obviously, womem who can be physically and emotionally
    harmed by your beliefs are going to be highly charged by these comments. If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one. That choice should be protected under privacy and freedom of religion. If you don’t like it, build safe places, like schools and the planet, and send thoughts and prayers to God. Don’t comment with your oppression and expect not to hit a lot of nerves.

    1. At what age is life viable on its own? In most cases, not before the age of 10. So, does that mean a mother should be able to “legally” take their child’s life as long as they aren’t viable on their own? Realize there are people that aren’t viable on their own in their 20’s . . .

      1. If you have never given birth, if you cannot get pregnant, you should just keep your opinion to yourself. You cannot possibly know what pregnancy feels like and all the risks involved and keep rambling on with your pathetic ill informed propaganda. Lemmings following a cult leader who cheats, on top of it. And religious extremists who refuse to acknowledge women as capable of making informed decisions. All states have not even ratified women as equally protected under the law, but a fetus is? It’s insane. Plus, so out of line. These children, the ones who were shot to death, deserve respect. Don’t use them to capitalize on your extremist views. It does nothing for your cause. Plus you’re in Oregon. We believe women have a choice. Don’t like it? Move to Idaho.

        1. I asked a simple question and you totally failed to answer it . . . At what age is life viable on its own? Now define when it is no longer a fetus and is life/child? In every other definition of life in science, the answer is “it has a heartbeat” or it has all the DNA of a living creature. But wait, science says that if a single cell ameba is found on Mars, that’s proof of life. Let’s take science another step . . . Does life have to be carbon based? (Humans and most life on the earth are carbon based.) What about the sulfur based life we know exists on the earth? Life can be defined as the ability of cells to divide and replicate, which would include a fetus as life.

        2. As for the rest of your post, simply reading the comments here, shows that many men AND women are incapable of making an informed decision. Propaganda runs rampant from all directions and Lemmings can be found everywhere you look. Yes, the victims deserve respect, as do aborted babies/fetus’. Yet you continue to capitalize on YOUR extremist views. For years, I’ve argued for Israel’s school security model, it works, and we have tons of proof it works, yet the majority of people don’t want true security for our kids in schools. I believe in singular avenues of ingress and egress, manned by armed guards for our schools. I believe in armed police officers on our campus’. I also know that no law(s) will stop those with evil intent. Finally, I know and admit that if every firearm was removed from the planet today, it would NOT stop war, murder, OR school massacres.

          1. Love wins. Game point. As for the rest of your post, I’m tired and it’s kind of rambling. But thanks for reading mine. Cheers to freedom.

        3. LoveWins or more like loses. On May 11, 2022 Aimee Arrambide, A Democrat witness testifying before the House Judiciary Committee on abortion rights stated that men can get pregnant and have abortions. Executive director of the abortion rights nonprofit Avow Texas, was asked by Rep. Dan Bishop, R-N.C., to define what “a woman is,” to which she responded, “I believe that everyone can identify for themselves.” Bishop asked;”Do you believe that men can become pregnant and have abortions?” Arrambide replied “Yes.” So LoveWins, according to your parties constituants, men can get pregnant, so maybe you should stop telling people what to do.

          1. SalsaVerde, “stop telling people what to do.” Umkay.

            In other news 19 children died in a shooting, but please continue about your views on “telling people what to do”….

            I think I’ve made my point. Please continue arguing with other people about how much you are not “telling them what to do”. Guess what saves people… love. Not control. Love. Night.

            1. You are defining who can give birth, and telling people who should keep their opinions to themselves, and classifying people as religious extremists, but it is about love not control. Makes perfect sense. Then you are on about equal rights for women, even though your political party claims that women cant be defined. Yet women aren’t even required to be in the selective service. You mean those equal rights? The absurd irony and contradiction runs deep.

  16. If life being viable on its own was set at say age 13, in other words women could have a child aborted up to their 13th birthday people would be amazed how well behaved, polite and respectable kids were under 13. Then we would have studies and arguments as to why the crime rate and behavioural issues in kids skyrockets once they hit 13. Many would argue it has nothing to do with fearing for their life but its hormones, or we need pueberty blockers or its the video games or even Trump, the church or the news or racism.

  17. Look at all the progressives calling for making murder illegal and helping the mentally ill. Oh wait… they’re not…. they’re calling for clipping law abiding citizens.

    The Constitution is very clear about what to do when it no longer fits your needs. Question is, will the progressives follow the rules, or try to shove crap down or throats?

    I say let’s roll ol’ son

  18. News outlets should really treat this like suicides (they don’t publish them). And for good reason. Suicide stories trigger copy cats. I am not saying don’t keep track of public mass shootings, it is a stat that the FBI should 100% keep and monitor, but give these stories less airtime… the families deserve some anonymity and the killer does NOT deserve the lime light.

    1. Respect your opinion. It’s truly a balancing act we’re getting way too familiar with. But if a tree falls in the forest and it’s not reported… how do you stop the trees from falling? Ignorance won’t prevent such tragedies. (And what about those who want less coverage not to prevent copycats but because they don’t want to/are tired of hearing about such awful things?) Only the right kind of attention, and working together to make progress will.

        1. What about the trees that are blown over in a storm? They don’t die before the storm, but because of a storm. Wouldn’t you want to know that there was a storm and the forest was leveled because of it? How can you make an informed decision, if you aren’t aware of what’s happening? Even propaganda, misinformation, and yes, news has a purpose.

      1. So you’d defend the callous joke biden saw fit to make during his remark yesterday? There was no sane reason for whoever wrote it for him to have included it in there. To me it was disrespectful given the tragedy to crack wise about 🦌 in kevlar vests. He went a whole 6 seconds before turning it into a political cause. How is jbs saying about trees how did that make him ignorant in your 👀?

              1. Straw man projections are easy to miss. I do it. I like the steel man theory, of trying to accurately assume the best representation of someone else, which I am not as good at. The straw man projection goes beyond debating theories, and easily goes towards classifying and objectifying people, or identity politics. It is our evolution working against us, our overactive imagination, and mind trying to make order out of everything to simplify the world.

    2. So very true it’s saddened me that sweet innocent children were targeted. The ***** who does these killings don’t deserve the line light. There’s no right kind of attention drawn to this

  19. not here to debate guns or lob insults.
    all i know is something is very, very wrong with a world where kids are targeted.
    the most innocent among us slaughtered.
    i have to think the perpetrator had serious mental illness.
    there can be no justification for this.

  20. shouldn’t facebook’s algorithms catch something like this and flag it to authorities? he posted about killing grandma, then posted he did it, then said he was headed to a school.

    they catch and report the hunter biden laptop story but not this? seems like they could instead be using their platform to help and for good.

  21. I don’t own a gun, I’ve never owned one, have no desire to. I don’t care if you own a gun, but I do care about responsible gun ownership. I also think that anything that runs along the same vein as an AR-15, M16 or any sort of modified weapon that can used to kill a large number of victims in a short amount of time is a ridiculous weapon. I think of my grandchildren and what it must have been like for those children that were in that classroom yesterday… Their lives will never be the same nor will their families or the community. No one should have to experience that sort of trauma. That’s what we should be focusing on now. Not blame, not accusations, not name-calling, not politicizing it. Making it about humans, loved ones and life.

    1. If you’ve ever been a victim or known a victim of violent crime you’d think twice about owning a gun. I spent over 10 years babysitting criminals of all types and I’ll tell you their are some severely evil people out there that would skin you alive if they caught you alone. Remember locks only keep honest people honest. Also Remember that when your locking your windows and doors at night, people are lurking everywhere waiting for an opportunity, arm yourself and don’t ever let them in or you’ll be sorry and long dead before any cop shows up to help you. You’ll thank a gun owner for saving your butt and then have an entirely different outlook on life afterwards.

      1. Gee Denny ~ do you consider rape
        a violent crime? Guess what… That’s what it’s considered in the courts. FYI ~ I have been raped ~ and I still wouldn’t own a gun. Save your own butt, but I don’t need mine saved by a gun or you.

    2. Quick question….do you think the AR in AR-15 means assault rifle? And also do you think it’s the same as a M16? Don’t think there are too many M16’s kicking around.

    3. “I don’t own a gun, I’ve never owned one, have no desire to. I don’t care if you own a gun, but I do care about responsible gun ownership. I also think that anything that runs along the same vein as an AR-15, M16 or any sort of modified weapon that can used to kill a large number of victims in a short amount of time is a ridiculous weapon”.

      With this statement you made it very clear you know nothing about guns. In the future you should probably stay on the sidelines when the urge to talk about guns arises.

  22. So the institution responsible for preventing this tragedy had the information and instruments available to prevent it and failed. But it is the guns fault. Got it.

    1. Which institution are you referring to? The police that “engaged” the shooter before he entered the school?
      What is your solution to prevent mass shootings? Everything in place now consistently fails. So, what do you propose?

      1. The surveillance state which was created supposedly to prevent this stuff. Supposedly he sent texts about what he was going to do and also fb posted. I don’t know enough about all of the warning signs that should have tipped off LE.

        What I would propose would be higher consequences, and remove potential benefits such as recognition. Also families as the first line of defense to help prevent this issue would have more culpability if they failed. The higher consequences to the perpetrator would not be considered humane in our society so I won’t discuss it, but would provide a better deterrent to others. If people really took this issue as a serious emergency, then that subject should be on the table.

        As for the gun control issue, Imagine that civilians have to meet an annual standard of proficiency to license every gun they own. An annual test, with a written, and a hands on qualification to own one. 1. a criminal background check. 2. mental soundness proof. 3. Have to pass a written test to prove knowledge of gun laws and gun safety rules. 4. Hands on test to prove safe handling demonstration, and knowledge of functions. 5. Qualification proficiency at the range. The problem with this is that since institutions of power want a monopoly on force, (like Obama said) they will simply make the test impossible to pass.

        I would add that a civilian should be allowed to own any weapon that they can qualify with. But I also would apply the written and hands on qualification to any high responsibility endeavor such as licenses for having children or owning pets.

        In the military, I had to pass a test to demonstrate my proficiency with the function, assembly, and disassembly of the weapon I was assigned. And also an annual marksmanship proficiency with it. And demonstrate safe handling during the whole process. If a person isn’t competent in those aspects than a gun isn’t doing them much good anyway, and they can be a danger to themselves and others. Unsafe handling is not uncommon.

      2. Plus I would ban; bully behavior, people starting fights, violence in movies, video games, and some music. I would match the consequences to the level of risk to society. So if these things put society in a national crisis, the punishment would be capital. If the problem isn’t that serious then people need to stop complaining and be more tolerant of the violence.

        1. Law enforcement could have stopped it outside of the school and not waited 40 minutes to go in. So just count on social media and phone companies to let law enforcement know when someone is just about to start their rampage? I thought social media companies can’t be trusted. Ban bullying, make gun owners prove proficiency? I keep hearing that bad people won’t follow rules, why would they listen to these? Constitution doesn’t say you have to be proficient anyway. Death penalty? They want to be killed. Holding families accountable after the fact doesn’t prevent the tragedy.
          What are we doing/not doing that every other country has already figured out?

          1. cog1, the point is if the left wants an authoritarian system as a solution, then lets have the discussion, and make it merit based, since the left is against meritocracy, because it is supposedly part of patriarchy, and racism. As to constitutional rights, I am guessing you weren’t aware; Joe Biden, April 8, 2021 “But no amendment, no amendment to the Constitution is absolute.” Joe Biden June 1974, Washington magazine. “And, whether you like it or not, young lady, us cruddy politicians can take away that First Amendment of yours if we want to.”
            And just like that, slavery is back on the table. If the bill of rights can be taken away they aren’t rights.

            No comment on state and tech cooperation or their level of trust in social media company data.

            As to deterrents there are many much worse things than capital punishments. And since movies already depict this sort of violence regularly, hard to get how people object to it in reality and still claim virtue.

            A few other ideas would be, if a person is against the bill of rights, they volunteered to no longer be a part of our society, so they should be required to leave. Or If you are for gun bans and gun confiscation then you just volunteered to be part of direct confiscation action.
            Or how about, if a person is against the 2nd amendment they should be required to display a sign identifying that on their caller id, vehicles, clothing, license plate, and place of residence. Since they are so anti gun they should proudly support that. And no police or military services would be allowed to respond or help anti gun people out of respect for their anti gun ideology.

  23. He bought the guns just a couple of days after turning 18. The kid didn’t work. Where did he get $5000 (guessing on amount of 2 rifles)?

  24. Gee Denny ~ do you consider rape
    a violent crime? Guess what… That’s what it’s considered in the courts. FYI ~ I have been raped ~ and I still wouldn’t own a gun. Save your own butt, but I don’t need mine saved by a gun or you.

      1. I had my post censored and deleted for making the same point about self responsibility. I just watched a video of a Chinese hostage situation with a crazed gunman had a choke hold on a woman outside a department store- while waving his gun- this big burly plain clothesed agent literally walked right up- struck the gun with his palm- pushed the woman to the side and judo threw this clown to the ground- in seconds. All the ladies in my life are martial arts trained- learn to protect yourself !

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