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Six Oregonians, Freedom Foundation sue Gov. Brown in federal court over ‘vindictive’ vaccine mandate

KTVZ file

Foundation says all six plaintiffs have recovered from COVID, have 'natural antibodies'

EUGENE, Ore. (KTVZ) -- Six Oregonians, represented by the Freedom Foundation, have sued Gov. Brown and the Oregon Health Authority in federal court over the governor’s recent mandate for several groups of workers to be vaccinated by Oct. 18 or face possible dismissal.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Eugene, names Gov. Kate Brown and Oregon Health Authority Director Patrick Allen as defendants.

"All six plaintiffs have previously had Covid and have natural antibodies," the foundation stated in Friday's news release announcing the lawsuit.

“The Governor’s orders fail to take into account natural immunity which current studies show to be just as - if not more - effective than any vaccine,” said the Oregon director of the Freedom Foundation, Jason Dudash. “These mandates are about control and not based in any science, which is consistent with what we’ve seen come out of the governor’s mansion this past year, as well as the White House.”

“The state compelling private individuals to submit to any medical procedure against their will is outrageous enough,” said Rebekah Millard, litigation counsel for the Freedom Foundation, which is representing the plaintiffs. “Imposing a one-size-fits-all mandate on people who not only don’t need the vaccine but would have an elevated chance of experiencing serious side effects if they take it shows conclusively the state’s actions are steeped in partisan politics rather than hard science.”

An aide to the governor said the office does not typically comment on pending litigation.

It's the second lawsuit against the governor over the mandate in recent weeks. Earlier this month, nine Oregon State Police troopers, five from Central Oregon, and a group of Klamath Falls firefighters filed suit against the governor in Jefferson County Circuit Court, challenging and seeking to block the vaccine mandate.

The Freedom Foundation said the federal lawsuit plaintiffs include:

·        Joshua Williams, chief of Aurora Fire and Rescue, who came down with COVID last January;

·        Jennifer Lewis, office manager and treatment coordinator for Klamath Falls Orthodontics, who contracted the virus in December 2020;

·        Beaverton school bus driver David Klaus, was tested for COVID in January and informed that he, like the others, has a “robust natural immunity to COVID-19.”

·        Phillip Kearney, who works for the Oregon Department of Justice as an Assistant Special Agent in Charge, tested positive for COVID-19 in the spring of 2021;

·        Jay Hicks resides in Malheur County and works for the Oregon Department of Corrections, where he has served for 22 years, and whose doctor specifically suggested he not get the vaccine after having recently tested positive for antibodies; and

·        Michael Miller who also works for the Oregon Department of Corrections, who, while he had the virus in November of 2020, tested positive for COVID-19 antibodies on Sept. 1, 2021.

Citing an uptick in reported cases health officials blame on the emergence of the so-called “delta variant” of the virus, Brown on Aug. 13 and 25, respectively, mandated everyone working in a school, health care, or state Executive Branch agency setting to obtain proof of vaccination by Oct. 18.

Oregon public and private employers are both subject to Brown’s edicts, which threaten a fine of $500 per day, per offense until the employee is either terminated or vaccinated.

The plaintiffs each assert they have been — or will be — materially damaged if their refusal to be vaccinated results in being fired by their respective employers.

“The Constitution unequivocally allows free Americans to refuse unwanted medical treatment,” Dudash said. “It follows logically that they can’t be discriminated against for exercising their Constitutional right.”

Dudash concluded, “Oregon’s education system has been a national laughingstock for years. Our health care systems are currently in crisis. The governor should have a vested interest in keeping as many people on payroll as possible. Instead, she is advocating for an overarching policy that will fire tens of thousands of employees who last month she heralded as heroes, for a reason that can only be interpreted as punitive and vindictive.”

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control released a study a month ago that found vaccination offers higher protection than a previous COVID-19 infection.

State health officials say the current rate of COVID-19 in unvaccinated people is about five times higher than in vaccinated people. Nearly 81% of the new COVID cases in Oregon last week were among the unvaccinated, OHA said.

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144 Comments

  1. So sick of the whiny babies that can’t do their part to help save lives and stop the pandemic! Same idiots who don’t want masks or anything, do you know how stupid you all sound?

      1. You mean Greg Abbott? This isn’t a valid point because the hypocrisy can go both ways. Depending on how we all FEEL. That’s what this has become. I feel therefore I am right!

        1. I’ve been taking massive quantities of ivermectin in preparation for the huge reinstatement party scheduled in Washington DC next weekend!! I heard about it on Fox news so it’s definitely going to happen this time. Besides it’s all over the internet, going to be a “tremendous” celebration!!! Tooooooo funny!!! Trump looks unite!! We need even more donations to give away to failing lawyers!!!

      2. Yet another failing, petty and juvenile lawsuit over a 1oz. Piece of cloth!!! Rotflmao!!! More money wasted on rich lawyers!!! Soooooooo much losing !!!! Just like their dear fat failed and fired New York city trust fund baby!!!! Too funny!!

      3. You mean public health responsibility. You have a public health responsibility when you engage with the public. Our tax payer money doesn’t need to fund your decisions to worsen our crisis and limit our activities to include gyms and counseling because you are ignorant. You have the right to stay home. Required vaccines for employment or school are not new. Stay home, move, we really don’t care tbh. These idiots’ legacy is collective narcissm in a pandemic, with a dash of arrogant opportunistic sadism. How proud their family and friends must be.

          1. The Term “Liberal” has ZERO to do with your statement! you should really look up the term before you use it! Man, do you look really stupid right now! Lol!Sad! Really.

            1. No pearl clutching here. I’m not going to wear something that is more likely to give me bacterial pneumonia than save me from covid. If I was concerned about it, I’d be wearing my N100 everywhere I go without being mandated to do so.

              Covid, like the flu, is here to stay, so feel free to wear a mask for the rest of your life, if it makes you feel safer.

          1. Trying to prevent sickness and death is the exact opposite of Hitler’s white supremacy goal. If you can spin that to support your position, you deserve a place on Trump’s “nothing but the best people” list.

    1. Those are such encouraging words, maybe you should try inspirational speaking. If you feel that you need the vaccination and continue to wear a mask, then that’s your choice, don’t force your opinions on others. It’s not healthy.

      1. Wrong. My tax payer money will not be funding idiots who refuse to do their part to stop this virus. Stay home. Lose your job? I really don’t care. I really don’t at all. You have the choice to stay home and seek employment elsewhere. Not on my dime. Their tax payer funded insurance will go up, so their insurance, for anyone refusing vaccine, should also go up. Consequences. You will not be wreckers with our public tax payer money by allowing these ignorant minority of people dictate our collective lives. You have the right to quit. Move to Florida or Texas or Missouri or even Idaho. We don’t want you here.

        1. I did. Back in January. Long before any mandates and I’m guessing we’ll before you. My wife and kids as well.

          Now, forget about Trump. Forget about your devices, and get a life.

  2. These people are so freaking tiresome. If they stopped being such selfish, self absorbed people that turned a public health crisis into a political issue, then we wouldn’t still be wearing masks and our children wouldn’t be so sick! I couldn’t care less if adult anti-vaxxers die, but I get mad when children get sick. That infant that died just breaks my heart.

    1. Some of you are insistent that being vaccinated prevents you from transmitting Covid. It’s almost like ignoring the facts makes your argument true. Does attacking the unvaccinated make you feel better? No? Then what basis are you using to label the unvaccinated as selfish?

        1. Joe Biden- “Stated on July 21, 2021 in a CNN town hall: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”… Pretty big claim- boast- lie… where’s the outrage ?

      1. Wearing seatbelts doesn’t 100% prevent you from dying and vaccines don’t 100% prevent you from transmitting Covid, but both are WAY better than nothing, which coincidentally, also sums up the basis of your argument.

        1. Barney- why did you block my post from the NHTSA- stating… “Of the 22,215 passenger vehicle occupants killed in 2019, 47% were not wearing seat belts.” ??? Where’s the TOS violation ?

            1. Make civil comments, they get through. Can’t do it? Bye. Sticking to the issues is what SOME ‘trolls’ have demanded. Not my fault if they can’t follow the very clear rules they have demanded enforcement of after years of “getting away with” exactly what they accuse others of. And yes, ‘warnings’ can be followed by plenty of deletions, no matter which foxhole you/they are in.
              Speaking in general of course;-)

    2. Really? Please explain to us how these vaccines will eradicate a virus with animal reservoirs……This should be fun. Please have links copied and pasted hahaha

      1. At risk of being slapped as an un-quiet moderator, I’ll weigh in with something I just read in comments on a friend’s Facebook post: “It’s so disappointing to see viewpoints on personal freedom override responsibility to community.”

          1. Came here for the MAGAtears, was not disappointed!

            Cry more babies!

            The fact that they labeled Gov Brown’s mandate “vindictive” tells you all you need to know about the motivation of the folks suing…

          1. Tired of those who claim the unvaccinated don’t spread this very contagious delta variant, even to some who are vaccinated.
            Read this last night, bears sharing: “It’s so disappointing to see viewpoints on personal freedom override responsibility to community.”

            1. Are you claiming that the vaccinated can’t spread to the un-vaccinated ??? That would be a seriously irresponsible statement coming from a Z21 representative.

              1. FACT – the new mandates apply to vaccinated as well, so that isn’t the question, except by those trying to spin the facts.
                The facts are that the vast majority of those seriously ill/dying now are not fully vaccinated. And that is what’s causing crises situations at many hospitals already strapped for staff.

                1. Do you WANT me to block personal attacks or not? TEST: Answer without attacking me or watch THAT disappear too.
                  I said I was the exception that proves the rule. NO LONGER. Your personal attacks on me and anyone else are offensive by definition, and hence a TOS violation. So unless you practice what you constantly preach, most of your comments will vanish.
                  After all, that’s what you want!
                  And trying to egg me into further wastes of time… well, I refuse to engage in discussions with anyone who lacks basic civility and respect.

        1. I know it wasn’t your comment, but was that comment about people not taking responsibility for the community?? That is a comment difintly worth a conversation, but not here, that is one that needs to be face to face, with the age group being between 18 and 60, it would be interesting in that age span what is determined to be the definition of responsibility is and what that looks like.
          Here is where I would get my hand slapped, over half that age group would have a struggle defining responsibility, not their fault, hand they were dealt. I think it would be a tough sell to a veteran who saw men and woman killed from their community that were fighting for the freedoms of that community. It would be hard to tell the veterans that they were not taking responsibility for their community and the community freedoms that risked their lives for it. Is the thinking that keeping our freedoms in place doesn’t take responsibility? Is this not even an argument if people were not able to get the vaccine, were not able to freely get the vaccine until the government said it was ok, or to select individuals only? The very freedom that is being damned here, is the very reason you are able to get the vaccine.
          Do people really believe your able to do and get whatever you want in communist China, North Korea? If the freedom thing is so bad, then why have it?? It seems a lot of people don’t like it at all, which is ok, because we are in the middle of it being a object lesson, and hopefully the lesson isn’t irreversible.

        2. Where does my “responsibility to community” begin and end? What if I got the JJ shot, but now the “community” requires a Pfizer booster to be fully “vaccinated,” followed up by three or four annual boosters? Am I responsible to take every injection my gov’t deems necessary? Am I to trust the most untrustworthy group of crooks (Ds&Rs) in DC with my health? And then trust the comanay, Pfizer, with the largest health care fraud fine in history ($2.3b), to make decisions based my health and not their profits, even though they have been given immunity to any legal liability?

          All of this, and I’d still be able to carry and pass on the virus to the community – why? The vaccine doesn’t prevent illness/death or transmission, so why take the risk, if you’re in a low risk category for covid-19?

        3. My “responsibility to the community” is to speak up when I see things that are wrong. Anyone who has studied the relationship between the FDA and big pharma knows they are both corrupt and will do or say anything as long as it means more drug sales. Often those drugs are not needed or even harmful. Dr. Donald Light from Harvard knows this and many medical doctors do as well.

          https://ethics.harvard.edu/person/donald-light

          So when you have an expert who focuses on ethics from Harvard telling you this you would think people would listen. But no, most just regurgitate exactly what big pharma wants them to. You have been programmed and they are playing you.

          This is my service to the community. If I didn’t care I would be silent as I don’t need the vaccine to keep my job running a non-profit charity that I establish for the good of all. Just because someone does not agree with the programming you have accepted does not mean that they are not a good citizen. That’s just the way big pharma programmed you.

  3. For every study that claims natural immunity is better or lasts longer than a vaccine, you can find as many or more that say the vaxx is still recommended. It is impossible to prove Brown’s actions were vindictive in any way.

      1. The majority of the people in the hospital are the so called vaccinated and the shot made them suck and are dying from it! The flu season is coming and you haven’t seen nothing yet!

    1. Wrong. There are no studies that show the vaccine is better than natural immunity. Browns actions are purposefully vindictive or negligent from not taking into account those with natural immunity.

        1. Do you really believe this? How do you know that it is true Barney? DO you have a medical degree that enables you to read the actual study and understand the game that they are playing on you? This was a public service announcement. The more you know.

        2. Why did you link this Barney? That study does not show vaccination is better than natural immunity. We are talking about vaccination vs natural immunity. That study is talking about vaccination vs vaccination + natural immunity.

        3. There is a ton of info out there… “Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections”… “This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.”… https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1… How about the Pfizer CEO- https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/pfizers-ceo-says-covid-vaccine-effectiveness-drops-to-84percent-after-six-months.html

        1. The conclusions in that study are entirely theoretical and not based on any real world data. Even in that study they use the word *MAY* help more with variants.

    2. The Jab is not safe- “Lisa Shaw, a BBC radio presenter, died at age 44 after receiving one shot of a COVID vaccine. The coroner, Karen Dilks, stated that “Lisa died due to complications of an AstraZeneca Covid vaccination.” See https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796.” … Stop ignoring the VAERS Data and save a life ! To date…more than 600,000 events, recorded and attributable to the COVID vaccines.

      1. The authors said the risks of blood clots were “much lower” than those associated with COVID-19 itself.

        While people can develop blood clots without having been infected or vaccinated, the authors said there would be an estimated 934 extra cases of thrombocytopenia for every 10 million people after infection with SARS-CoV-2, compared with 107 after a first dose of AstraZeneca.

        https://www.newsweek.com/covid-vaccine-blood-clot-rids-explained-bbc-lisa-shaw-death-coronavirus-1623684
        https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-health/dont-fall-vaers-scare-tactic

        1. That’s fine- but VAERS is not a scare tactic- it is linked “from” the reputable CDC- and the data is clear- More than 600,000 events (including thousands of deaths), recorded and attributable to the COVID vaccines… Seems to me there is more to the story here than just your spin on blood clots !

          1. FACT: VAERS data is not confirmed, as officials repeatedly state.
            “When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.”
            https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html

  4. I’m trying to figure out if I heard Biden right. His patience is running thin.” Will use his authority to get Governors out of the way.” Not my words but his. What does that even mean? How would you get Governors out of the way?? I have never heard a president talk like this. Where has this urgency been for all the immigrants coming through the border?? What do they have that Americans don’t have to be able to not spread the virus??? There has to be something that keeps them from spreading covid, why else would they not have to get the vaccine? Are immigrants less likely to spread covid than Americans.
    I guess I am just stupid, because I can’t figure out why there has been no urgency on that,especially since the numbers are high on how many came over the border. To mandate that businesses make their employees get a vaccine or lose their job, and the people that have gotten the vaccine can still work, even though they are still getting covid, and spreading it, I work with two that had the shot but still got covid, so it’s ok that they keep their job because they are vaccinated? Vaccinated against what?? What are they vaccinated against?? Covid?? How did that work out? I’m really trying to understand the logic behind this. Working Americans are going to lose their job because they won’t take a vaccine that isn’t working?? Right or left, doesn’t matter, because the only thing that isn’t lying is the numbers.
    So why the push?? Why say after you get the vaccine, no more mask, not my words, but from leadership that is basically telling all of the people who haven’t got the vaccine that they will lose their job to protect the vaccinated that are working, even though they are still getting covid after being vaccinated.
    Can someone please explain this so your average dumb American can understand, and explain it without politics and with clarity and no agenda?

      1. Lol, you can say that again! The Arizona voter fraud results are out and Arizona is going to decertify their electoral votes meaning Biden lost and Trump won! 🤣 Biden’s not the president!!! Ahhhhhh, so many tears! 😆🇺🇸 Is back!

      2. No tears here, don’t know where you got that, just needed some clarification and answers to the questions I had, which seems to be construde as whining just asking questions that I really don’t have an answer for, never made it personal.

    1. Gonna try to explain this to you so pretend I’m talking real slow. Like all science information is ever evolving. And while the vaccine isn’t 100% effective it does prevent the majority of people receiving vaccine from getting really sick as opposed to the the unvaccinated. The push here is cause and effect. The more our medical facilities become overwhelmed with COVID patients the more elective procedures and other necessary procedures are delayed or canceled. Even if you’re vaccinated you may not exhibit symptoms but still are able to spread to unvaccinated. Unvaccinated go to hospital… hospital overwhelmed. Repeat. Nothing opens up… economy suffers. People lose jobs. Reach herd immunity. Virus less of a threat. Economy opens up. People get jobs. Everyone happy but unvaccinated! See how that works?

      1. In the slow talking I didn’t hear why it has never been an urgency for the immigrants coming through the border not to be vaccinated.
        My original post had that question. You have all these people in one place where they could easily get the vaccine, according to Biden it has been easy to get and available so why where you have this large group of people that you could give the vaccine to, there is never an attempt at all??
        So this is my slow talking,
        Why hasn’t there been any urgency or testing or vaccine requirements of people coming through the border, we are talking thousands of people, simple question, why hasnt that been addressed with the same aggressive approach, especially since they are all in one area, and not spread all over the US.

        1. Don’t be afraid. From the attached link:

          “Migrants are not tested for Covid in Border Patrol custody unless they show symptoms, but all are tested when they leave Border Patrol custody, according to DHS officials. Immigrants who are allowed to stay in the U.S. to claim asylum are given tests when they are transferred to ICE, Health and Human Services or non-governmental organizations.”

          https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/18-percent-migrant-families-leaving-border-patrol-custody-tested-positive-n1276244

          1. Not ever afraid to read a link. Staggering numbers, they wanted to test everyone , but the border chief said they don’t have the resources and it would cause a larger bottleneck than they already have. 25% of 200,000 is a significant percentage of people having covid, and those are only the ones tested, and only if they have signs or symptoms.
            Which brings this question
            People can still have covid and not show the signs or symptoms yet, so what about those people?
            And they are only testing tho with symptoms, but US citizens, it doesn’t matter, you have to get the vaccine no matter what, period.
            So why are they not getting the vaccine no matter what??

  5. Barney, a doctor Brian Hansen, talking about the autopsies on recent covid fatalities and what it does to the lungs, was interesting and he stated a few facts, he said 1% of people that get covid die, he went down the list of minor symptoms to the 1%. I would ask you fact check that.
    Anyone can type and look themselves, Brian Hansen, doctor explaining the autopsies on YouTube. Most if not all the comments were positive, this isn’t some whack doctor.

    1. Instead of pushing videos you found on an anti-vaxx faceboomer group, please call you actual Doctor in Bend or wherever you live and ask that Medical expert if the shot is safe and effective, and if he/she thinks you should take it yourself, and then please follow that Doctor’s advice the minute you hear it without further adieu.

      1. People keep saying to talk to your doctor about the vaccines. I have talked to mine and several other doctors. They all agree that they are not getting the vaccine. Of course, as soon as I say that many on here will say your doctor is a quack. So now is your arrogance with your knowledge giving to you by tv programming, you know more than a very knowledgable and intelligent doctor.

        1. Please give us the name of just one of the Doctors you spoke with so we can verify you are speaking the truth. I will personally call that Doctor to get this important information of which you speak. Looking forward to hearing back from you about this, I really want to ask your Doctor his/her opinion as soon as possible. Thank you in advance.

    2. People’s gonna 🐝 lieve what they want to and there’ll 🐝 ones calling Hansen a quack. Like the theory floating around that almas the Russian sasquatch bioengineered the covid in a lab with funding from Putin. Who then released it in china thus Wuhan becoming ground 0. Then struck a deal with pelosi to bring first infected patient to new York through a wormhole under the Kremlin that allowed her and the FBI to go undetected getting the patient over here so it could spread like a wildfire last February.🥵

        1. I’m not allowing all your comments either, please be the adult you wish to see in others, thanks. (Engaging with trolls solves nothing, we ‘stoop’ to their level and it’s just what they want – to continue the no-win never-ending arguments…)

      1. To show how there’s some real far fetched conspiracy theories going on our there. I can see pelosi being covert like that time use a Stargate or a wormhole to get from one side of the world undetected to the other to further her vindictive vendetta.

  6. Don’t believe the hype.. currently in st. Charles emergency department at 4:40am… they are all bored and sitting around doing nothing. You are all pathetic. I chime in on some things sometimes but really, this is what the socialist communist liberal democrats want.. everybody fighting over nothing so they can pass laws to better their personal life and finances while we suffer. I dont like Trump, never did. Dont like Biden, he’s brain dead and worthless. But I have common sense and awareness and its beyond obvious what’s going on. Stop walking around like sheep and heard dogs. Its only making this country worse.

  7. Either get the shot or don’t. Good grief. You people need to shut up and they need to close this stupid troll board down. People have the right to choose what they put in their bodies. Period.

    1. Shut this troll board down!
      I concur.

      May i add;
      If you don’t like the rules ie: face covering. Please don’t confront employees in the service industries with your “disdain” for Joey or Katie

        1. I am doing what you demanded. Many of your comments get through. The ones attacking me and others will not.
          Be civil and respectful, focus on the issues, or go elsewhere. It is happening to folks across the spectrum, including those who attack you.
          I told you to be careful what you wish for. Now you have it.
          And yet, since late 2019 when this platform launched, 131K comments approved, still only about 2,100 total deleted. Cries of ‘kancel culture’ ring very, very hollow.

  8. Not much discussion about the actual lawsuit here- just the same old tired “regulars” promoting a dictatorship. These suits have just begun- weak-kneed underlying conditioners have no right to dictate how the healthy will live. 97% survival rate for a mild virus- is no “crisis” !

    1. It’s about time you showed up, sanity! Can’t and won’t fight this left crowd alone. Even when your civil, with a relevant question, they blast you and make it personal, and never answer the question, it’s absolutely exhausting, the word freedom to them is profanity, and they don’t understand the only reason they can come on here and attack people with stupidity and ignorance and hatred is because it’s a free country, don’t they get that?? They would not be allowed to say anything in China, period! Fact check China and communism, are they that stupid that they don’t know the difference.
      Hopefully the post about Arizona is right.

      1. Sorry to disappoint- but Lerten seems hell bent on blocking my posts so he can now personally drive the Z21 agenda… seems NVRDMBR and the lot have let him down !

  9. In 1777, George Washington REQUIRED his troops get vaccinated for smallpox and gee whiz, it wasn’t even FDA approved. Oh, the TYRANNY!!! The TYRANNY!!!

  10. I am among the immunocompromised that stayed quarantined until the vaccine came out. The hysteria over this virus is so sad. Even people posting showing how scared they are of it is just sad. The elderly and people like me face threats way worse everyday that would be fatal for us, yet people have bought into the propaganda and fear. I am really getting sick of our Government using us as a reason to lock down healthy people for “my” protection. I have been asked twice to show proof of my vaccination, I show them a printout of ALL my vaccinations, then I ask if they are fully vaccinated to protect people like me. Their answer is NO. Such hypocrites. NO, I don’t expect everyone to get vaccinated, it’s their choice. I am vaccinated so they don’t have to. That’s the way America works. FREEDOM

  11. Barney,
    This comment section is hijacked by a few and you know it. It is not a healthy connector for the community; it is a cancer. You have become too opinionated, and for good reason. But, I don’t believe this is healthy for you either. The hate is overwhelming with little to no love.
    At this rate of disdain, division and distrust, how long before a Civil War?
    There are lots of guns on both ‘sides’??

    1. Remember how one of the hijacked planes was commandeered by the passengers 20 years ago today, with tragic yet heroic results? NO analogy here, except… one can also overpower ‘digital hijackers’ with positive, constructive, civil comments, and more firm enforcement of rules. The answer isn’t to tape everyone’s mouth shut. It’s to rise above and post the kind of adult comments you’d like to see more of.
      I’m trying to do my part. Please do the same.
      Oh and check out Braver Angels and the Bridge Alliance. We can’t just ‘give up’ amid the toxic hate of the Blame Society. We have to find a new path.

    1. Hey there Stevecky, have enjoyed reading your posts. They are truly well thought out. Your question regarding Biden’s statement about governors…..of course it’s Trumps fault!! 😂😂
      Just ask Keyser Soze…that is the only answer they can constantly come up with.
      Look forward to reading more of your posts 👍

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